Ultra, Encore, or CJ3

[Bleeds On]

Pros and cons of each? Each of these planes will do our mission, but is spending another $2M-3M more for an Encore or CJ3 worth it? I know the Ultra has shorter TBO and burns more fuel but it would take a long time to eat up the difference. Maybe depreciating the more expensive plane makes sense. Thoughts?

 

[Tgaug6300]

IMHO the CJ3 hands down. Outstanding performance (climb, fuel burns, runway perf.), huge baggage, current avionics, FADEC, Great engine, no wing spar running through the cabin, still in production. I think that about sums it up for me.

 

[sonicyouth]

They are all good choices. I have flown an 1995 Ultra for 3 years. Excellent plane. Never breaks. And cheap!

 

[Bleeds On]

I know what the brochures say, but what are the real-world cruise speeds and ranges that you guys are seeing? Let's just say 6 pax.
Also, are the earlier Encore's and CJ3's EEC or FADEC? I see the newest ones are. And what are the Mx intervals like(i.e. Phase inspections vs. Inspection Docs, etc)? Thanks again

 

[SpaceBall 1]

CJ3 has always been FADEC. I think the same is true for the Encore (not sure). Encore + has the same avionics as the CJ3 and is a fantastic performer. With the CJ3, you're always pulling the power out of the Cruise detent to keep from overspeeding the jet. I think the same is true for the Encore. Not so for the Ultra. I personally wolud go for the CJ3. The cabin layout is nicer, lower DOC, current production and the baggage bay is outstanding.

All 3 are good jets. There are good buys to be had on solid Ultras. But, you can't beat the cabin and baggage bay on the CJ3.

 

[BoilerUP]

The CJ3 has vastly superior baggage to any 560-series and operates for less $$$; the Encore will have better full-fuel payload capability and a hair faster cruise speeds.

The Encore has TRs which give some folks warm fuzzies; the CJ3 has ground idle, stout breaks and a quite effective lift dump.

CJ3 is MSG-3 (12mo/300hr inspection doc intervals); I'd assume the Encore is as well though it might still be on the old Phase interval.

We operate a CJ2+ (performance nearly identical to a CJ3) and this airplane could easily do 0.75M @ FL450 at mid-weight cruise; we see 730pph and 402KTAS at that altitude and I'm told the CJ3 cruises about the same speed with fuel flow 40-50pph higher.

A couple early-serial CJ3s have sold for below $4M over the last year, though I'm not sure what the going rate is today.

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Between the CJ3 fuel burns and the resale value of the plane down the road, you'll probably be money ahead buying one over an Ultra or Encore. And as you mentioned earlier, you'll be able to take higher dollar amounts in depreciation per year on the CJ3.

Even though the Ultra and Encore are well supported now, that may not be the case in a few years. There's a lot to be said about buying an airplane that's still in production.

 

[wrxpilot]

I know what the brochures say, but what are the real-world cruise speeds and ranges that you guys are seeing? Let's just say 6 pax.
Also, are the earlier Encore's and CJ3's EEC or FADEC? I see the newest ones are. And what are the Mx intervals like(i.e. Phase inspections vs. Inspection Docs, etc)? Thanks again

We have a CJ3, S/N in the 150s with about 1500 hours on it. We always see about 406 ktas at 800 pph at F450. In the low '30s, I've seen 425 ktas on several occasions. You will NEVER be able to leave the power at MCT at cruise for long before it starts over speeding.

In the almost 700 hours I have in it, we've always made it straight to F450 without having to level off. The climb profile we use is 220 kias/0.60 mach. Depending on temps, somewhere around F400 this requires a climb rate of 500 fpm.

The no wind book range of 1875 nm (NBAA IFR) is very doable. Even going west, we've done PBI-SDL several times non-stop.

Runway performance is amazing, and this is where this airplane does stuff not too many others can. For example, our airplane has done VLL-SMO. Troy (VLL) is only 3,549' long (in the Detroit area). Departing out of an airport with that short of a runway and then flying 1,750 nm is just amazing. I've landed it at SPG, which is only 2,919'x75'. It was well within the book numbers, and was surprisingly not that big of a deal. The other guy I fly with has flown a CJ3 into SQL, which is 2600'x75.

You will also love the avionics. Proline 21 is absolutely amazing in its capability. Combine that with the great radar and XM weather/Nexrad, and you have one capable machine.

This is going to be my last week flying it, and I will miss it a lot!

 

[NCherches]

Look into the Bravo also... You can probably get one these days for 1.5mil.