UAL Scope: Checkmate

[General Lee]

A lot of "what if's"..... Delta TA said lots of hiring... Well that didn't happen....

DL is currently fat on pilots by about 400 due to capacity cuts and mods being done on widebodies that are getting lie flat seats and AVOD in the back of the seats. In 2013 DL will start getting 88 717s at 3 per month starting in AUG, along with 14 MD90s and 737-900ERs also coming at 3 per month starting in AUG(those 739s will replace older 757s/320s/767 Dom one for one). So, the 717s and MD90s will be growth planes, plus retirements will eventually take place. I don't think anyone thought there would be immediate hiring thanks to the TA. The additional planes don't come until next year anyway, and that was known.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[fam62c]

Paybanding! :beer:

Sure, but that has to get negotiated. How much negotiating capital do you spend to increase pay rates for aircraft you don't have and may never have on property? My thought has always been to either avoid publishing rates for equipment that is not either on property or been ordered. Failing that put rates in with a sunset provision if there are no planes in that class on property by a certain date; this prevents rates from becoming stale especially in cases where there are limited comparable contracts to determine a market value.

I'm thinking that if 100 seat airplanes had compelling economics the airlines would be ordering them in droves but they are ordering 737's and A-319/320's in droves instead because these are the most versatile planes available for the majority of the flying most airlines do.

It's also important to keep in mind that as pilots we think we are the center of the universe around which all airline economic considerations revolve. Pilot compensation is just one consideration when choosing a new aircraft type and in the grand scheme of things it's probably not a deciding factor.

 

[wms]

There is not an innovative bone at Ual. Once they see that dal is moving capacity to larger aircraft and making money they will follow.

Economics, a staffing shortage, and follow-the-leader will do to snb's what scope cannot.

What Ual needs to focus on is what's best for customers. Common sense mgmt principles would make it a better company for everyone.

 

[flyboyike]

...plus retirements will eventually take place....

They've been "eventually taking place" as long as I've been playing with airplanes.

 

[KNOTS]

DL is currently fat on pilots by about 400 due to capacity cuts and mods being done on widebodies that are getting lie flat seats and AVOD in the back of the seats. In 2013 DL will start getting 88 717s at 3 per month starting in AUG, along with 14 MD90s and 737-900ERs also coming at 3 per month starting in AUG(those 739s will replace older 757s/320s/767 Dom one for one). So, the 717s and MD90s will be growth planes, plus retirements will eventually take place. I don't think anyone thought there would be immediate hiring thanks to the TA. The additional planes don't come until next year anyway, and that was known.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Not true... Delta guys were on this forum saying hiring was going to start "fall '12" DALPA over estimated the number of early retirements also.

 

[FDJ2]

A lot of "what if's"..... Delta TA said lots of hiring... Well that didn't happen....

Actually, the Delta TA didn't say that, but a comm piece was published that depicted the staffing impact of the new contract. That comm piece showed a net staffing change of 1 in 2012, 180 in 2013, driven by 717s coming online in the second half of the year, then in 2014 and 2015 approximately 400-500 additional positions each year as more 717s come online. All in the contract will create about 1,100 new mainline jobs through 2015, but only 1 this year.

 

[General Lee]

Actually, the Delta TA didn't say that, but a comm piece was published that depicted the staffing impact of the new contract. That comm piece showed a net staffing change of 1 in 2012, 180 in 2013, driven by 717s coming online in the second half of the year, then in 2014 and 2015 approximately 400-500 additional positions each year as more 717s come online. All in the contract will create about 1,100 new mainline jobs through 2015, but only 1 this year.

And that also means about 550 new Captain positions (on 88 717s), along with 14 more MD90s next year alone too.(although they will replace the 17 DC9s exiting in 2014 now) The new 739s will be neutral with pilots, replacing one for one domestic 757s, A320s, and some domestic 767-300s. So, the 717s will be growth airplanes. Here's for hoping for a widebody order or buying used widebodies sooner than later...


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[IBNAV8R]

I'm getting deja vu from the early 90s.

Pilots: "We're not going to fly those little panty-waist airplanes"

Management: "Alrighty then, have a nice day"

 

[Ben Franklin]

TOTAL CREW COST SAVINGS PER YEAR

EMB 195 $88,721,820

EMB 190 $137,114,916


Note: An additional crew savings of $7-8,000,000 per year is realized with the reduction of the third flight attendant in the EMB 190 and 195.

estimated cost of 203 E190/5's @ $30,000,000/ea = $6,090,000,000.00

estimated crew savings/yr from the original post = $233,836,736.00

Allowable per the TA.. but is it a good "dollars and sense" decision?
:nuts:

 

[RJ Bum]

I'm getting deja vu from the early 90s.

Pilots: "We're not going to fly those little panty-waist airplanes"

Management: "Alrighty then, have a nice day"

What are you saying? Pilots reliving their mistakes? Say it isn’t so….