UAL Profit WTF seriously love accounting rules

[contrail67]

how to you go from preparing for a supposedly 350 million loss to a hedging profit?

id love to the the real numbers.

SKIPPY

Because it was supposedly?....and then come the accounting guys. Prove us all wrong.

Not the first time a 1 time gain or loss has been entered into the books by a company....it is still a profit in accounting terms.

 

[contrail67]

Not necessarily. Fact is that many will take advantage of their cuts.

Others will follow the cuts...

 

[ACL65PILOT]

FWIW, DAL announced cuts one and three months ago. These cuts that UAUA and CAL are announcing are in response to ours.
10% domestic and 15% international starting Sept 1st.

 

[contrail67]

FWIW, DAL announced cuts one and three months ago. These cuts that UAUA and CAL are announcing are in response to ours.
10% domestic and 15% international starting Sept 1st.

Last summer is when UAL announced their cuts...then DAL followed UAL's announcement. UAL announced the parking of the 6-7 747's then the parking of the 100 737's.

Either way you look at it ....they are cuts. NOT what we like to read.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Agreed. Hopefully this is it. We cut much more and our costs get way out of wack per seat mile.

 

[ualdriver]

My understanding from reading the earnings call transcript and the 10Q is that the gain was a one time "mark to market" gain from our fuel hedging strategy. The airlines are starting to pay attention to fuel hedging for obvious reasons but the intent is to "smooth" an airline's fuel costs over long periods of time. Sometimes the hedges make money, sometimes they lose money. This quarter we made some "paper" money from the hedges. In the past we've lost money (paper and real!). Since we are an airline and not a hedge fund speculating on commodities, we need to make money from flying airplanes and not fortuitous swings in whatever commodity we're using as a proxy for jet fuel.

The reality is that we had a big loss, just like just about everyone else did, and this is unsustainable, but we're not knocking on death's door as we all read so frequently on this forum.

 

[freightdogfred]

The reality is that we had a big loss, just like just about everyone else did, and this is unsustainable, but we're not knocking on death's door as we all read so frequently on this forum.

Agreed, the future is bright at UAL.

 

[tyuwerty]

My understanding from reading the earnings call transcript and the 10Q is that the gain was a one time "mark to market" gain from our fuel hedging strategy. The airlines are starting to pay attention to fuel hedging for obvious reasons but the intent is to "smooth" an airline's fuel costs over long periods of time. Sometimes the hedges make money, sometimes they lose money. This quarter we made some "paper" money from the hedges. In the past we've lost money (paper and real!). Since we are an airline and not a hedge fund speculating on commodities, we need to make money from flying airplanes and not fortuitous swings in whatever commodity we're using as a proxy for jet fuel.

The reality is that we had a big loss, just like just about everyone else did, and this is unsustainable, but we're not knocking on death's door as we all read so frequently on this forum.

Wow! It took almost 2 pages for someone to clear it up.

Yes, the operation lost money. That loss was offset by the gain in the fuel hedging program.

 

[Fly4hire]

All that really matters:

UAL ended the quarter with $2.8 billion in total cash, of which $2.6 billion was unrestricted

Cash increased. Go figure?????

How much do they need to liquidate and pay off creditors as they close the doors?

 

[Fly4hire]

The reality is that we had a big loss, just like just about everyone else did, and this is unsustainable, but we're not knocking on death's door as we all read so frequently on this forum.

Nah, just whistling past the graveyard.

Prediction: Merger with CAL in a pre-packaged BK with merger/acquisition with major asset sales and a good portion of the former UAL discarded. Kellner was fired for not approving the merger.

 

[contrail67]

How much do they need to liquidate and pay off creditors as they close the doors?

They are not liquidating...sorry.

 

[koko nw]

Nah, just whistling past the graveyard.

Prediction: Merger with CAL in a pre-packaged BK with merger/acquisition with major asset sales and a good portion of the former UAL discarded. Kellner was fired for not approving the merger.

Earlier today Continental management announced that they would be reducing jobs at the airline by an additional 1700 employees. Although there was no mention of pilot positions in the announcement, ALPA was notified late this afternoon that the company will be sending out as many as 308 letters to pilots notifying them of a possible furlough. These letters are required by New Jersey state law.

Another arm chair CEO without a brain. Discard a good portion?
Like what? Their routes? Airplanes? Slots?...Go back to school kid.

Some Jack@ss wishing unemployment for other pilots is downright disgusting.

 

[ualdriver]

I know everyone on this forum loves to think that CAL is going to "wait for UAL to fail and then pick up the pieces they want." First of all, it could happen someday, just like it could happen at CAL, but probably not anytime soon. Second of all, whether you're referring to a UAL failure or a failure of anyone else, a poster (CAL guys?) who believes in the first sentence is under the assumption that CAL will actually get the pieces they would want. Sorry guys, but the airline industry doesn't act in a CAL vacuum.

IMO it would be incredibly risky for CAL management to sit on the sidelines and wait and hope for the following sequence of events to ALL happen: 1) UAL fails, 2) UAL is actually broken up instead of being reorganized, and 3) CAL actually get the pieces it wants *if* UAL were broken up- the same pieces that other, possibly healthier airlines are obviously going to want too.

I guess all of those things could happen, but what if they don't? Then what? That's why I suspect, whether it's now or later, that we'll see (here at UAL) some sort of merger rather than fragmentation.

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

Hey, here's an idea: All you old 60-somethings could friggin retire!!! Go enjoy your measly lives while your ticker is still beating. God damn, I hate flying with the blue hairs.

 

[contrail67]

Hey, here's an idea: All you old 60-somethings could friggin retire!!! Go enjoy your measly lives while your ticker is still beating. God damn, I hate flying with the blue hairs.

Better yet...how bout the company offer them some incentive to leave!

Why would you not offer an early out program...these guys are expensive.