UAL or AirTran

[Guppy Guy]

Currently weighing the pros and cons of both. Obviously they both have potential for good things. But they also have a certain amount of risk. I'm trying to analize the growth models for each carrier and look in my crystal ball for the next 20 years. Right now the images are a bit fuzzy . I'd love to hear from any UAL guys on how they view their situation. Is there a future at UAL? I understand things are dim right now but how about down the road? Is the current hirering for growth or because guys on the street have decided not to return?

I've wanted to be a part of UAL for many years but it's not what it used to be, I understand that. Then again, neither are any of the others.

My head says go with AirTran but my heart still pulls me toward UAL.

Anyway, have at it. What's the verdict?

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Flew AAI but work for UAL. My opinion UAL. PM me if you have questions

 

[fletch717]

Only a few previous UAL pilots have left AAI to return to UAL.











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[Sonny Crockett]

I'd take UAL (If you get hired)

Have 4 buds that bolted from AirTran to return to UAL and I know of two guys who are trying to get hired as we speak, both work for Airtran.

If you are under 40, I would go with UAL. I would not turn down a number at UAL. 5 Billion Plus in the bank, the best route structure, crappy management but once Tilton bolts with his millions we can solve that problem.

 

[Capt. Kramer]

I hope those two guys are senior to me.

 

[Fedora]

Just keep in mind why those guys were at AirTran in the first place! They were furloughed from UAL. When was the last furlough at AirTran? UAL can be a great career if you are young and don't mind being furloughed once or twice before you retire. Might not, either, but look at the history.

 

[labatt]

Last Airtran furlough was OCT 1998.

 

[UALX727]

I resigned from UAL to stay at AirTran. Most of the UAL furloughees that I know of have decided to stay at AirTran, although there are some exceptions.

For me, it was about providing my family with some stablility. AirTran has the lowest non-fuel CASM in the industry, and management thinks that they will overtake SWA shortly in total CASM (including fuel).
I believe that, for the most part, a seat on an airliner is just a commodity. The guy that can do it for less has a big advantage. Here is an interesting link, mainly slides from one of AirTran's presentations:
http://library.corporate-ir.net/library/64/642/64267/items/249727/MerrillLynch0607.pdf


There are advantages to UAL as well. Some that come to mind are more crew bases, bigger equipment, international, and just starting to hire again. Getting in on the beginning of the hiring wave might be a good thing.

 

[contrail67]

Agreed. Very hard to make a choice right now of any airline. Follow your true desire. Good luck to you.

 

[Lear70]

Depends. Where do you live? How is the commute to one of the domicile(s) for either airline? What are your long-term career goals? Do you care about being an F/O for a decade? Can you afford the first year pay hit at UAL?

If you're already at AAI and past year 2, I'd say stay at AAI. There's a REASON most of the AAI folks aren't accepting recalls unless they're junior F/O's.

If you haven't gotten hired on at either one, it's a harder issue. I'd personally go for FDX or UPS but that's just me.

 

[The Victors]

I resigned from UAL to stay at AirTran. Most of the UAL furloughees that I know of have decided to stay at AirTran, although there are some exceptions.

For me, it was about providing my family with some stablility. AirTran has the lowest non-fuel CASM in the industry, and management thinks that they will overtake SWA shortly in total CASM (including fuel).
I believe that, for the most part, a seat on an airliner is just a commodity. The guy that can do it for less has a big advantage. Here is an interesting link, mainly slides from one of AirTran's presentations:
http://library.corporate-ir.net/library/64/642/64267/items/249727/MerrillLynch0607.pdf


There are advantages to UAL as well. Some that come to mind are more crew bases, bigger equipment, international, and just starting to hire again. Getting in on the beginning of the hiring wave might be a good thing.

I wouldn't pay that much attention to the CASM stuff. It's nice, but really doesn't matter that much. I think more important is the fact that UAL will not have any contract improvements for 3-5 years, they have ZERO aircraft on order, and long time to upgrade after age 60 changes. Not to mention their mgmt's only goal right now is to find a merger. I'd stay at airtran and try and get on with someone like fedex or ups too.

 

[taylor01]

I wouldn't pay that much attention to the CASM stuff. It's nice, but really doesn't matter that much. I think more important is the fact that UAL will not have any contract improvements for 3-5 years, they have ZERO aircraft on order"

How can you say cost don't matter that much? Why do you think airlines with the lowest CASM's continue to report positive earnings through the ups and downs of the aerospace cycle while airlines with the highest CASM's post billion dollar losses and layoff thousands of pilots. Yup cost have nothing to do with it.

United has 42 A319/320 aircraft on firm order to be delivered in the 2011 - 2014 time frame

 

[instructordude]

Both jobs are higly sought after and are pretty much the pinnacle of this industry. Too tough to call but

United does have 777s and 747400s. In a nutshell international widebodies. And were not talking widebodies like JMoney's girlfriend.

Airtran you have some of the best pay and stability. Airtran is rising and will continue.

You be one lucky mo fo!

 

[The Victors]

My opinion was that those other items were more important right now than casm. AA, nwa, ual, dal, alaska, everybody...has higher casm right now than airtran and swa and they are all making money right now. (post bankruptcy) I believe you are wrong about the aircraft order. Everything I have read and all the ual pilots that I have spoken with confirm no orders. Post where you get that info from.

 

[The Victors]

Both jobs are higly sought after and are pretty much the pinnacle of this industry. Too tough to call but

United does have 777s and 747400s. In a nutshell international widebodies. And were not talking widebodies like JMoney's girlfriend.

Airtran you have some of the best pay and stability. Airtran is rising and will continue.

You be one lucky mo fo!

Best pay???????:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Ty Webb]

Go with the Tranny . . .

We serve "Indianapolis-St. Paul" (according to some of the ATL gate agents' boarding announcements).

We also serve Wih-cheetah . . . .

How many other airlines can claim THAT?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Tough call because of UAL's Management. With $80, or $90 a barrell oil there will be no low cost carriers in the future. I'm not saying "no AirTran," just "no low cost," it is all going to be more expensive.

How much of AirTran's business discretionary? I know my wife buys AirTran tickets rather than non-rev on DAL, but after about $250 she stays home. My business partners love AirTran and pick them when possible. But the future is clearly in the ability to generate revenue and UAL has the tools to generate premium revenue.

AirTran appears to have a better plan for the future, UAL has a great route network. They both might have to endure mergers of some sort. Tough call. If it were me, I would pick the most convenient and keep my stuff in with the others (FedEx, UPS, DAL, dare I say American?) too.

 

[On Your Six]

I'd go to Netjets before either UAL or Air Tran. I am former UAL and it doesn't have a plan other than finding a merger partner. Check out Netjets - pretty good pay, great schedule, new equipment, best benefits I have seen.

 

[Lear70]

That's great... if you don't mind moving to one of their domiciles or trying to commute without pass or jumpseat bennies.

Netjets is a GREAT company. I've passed on the opportunity because I like my airline lifestyle, including living in the city of MY choice.


Some people just don't want that lifestyle. To each their own, and it's a good thing anyway, as we'd all be hosing each other over if we all had the same company we all wanted to work for. :beer:

 

[Guppy Guy]

Great posts guys. I really appreciate the breakdown. The info posted is exactly what I've been struggling with analyzing. I see great potential as well as pit falls with each. AAI is fighting with mgt. and the union over the TA. The future work rules there may or may not be as good as I had hoped. UA is so beat up right now it looks like it could only get better. Being in at the begining of a hiring cycle would be ideal as long as they start to grow. No airplane orders currently is scarry but that may only be temporary. AAI is in a major transition right now. Contract talks and mergers are uncertain and who knows what this place will look like 20 years from now. Then again, who knows what any airline will look like 20 years from now.

Guess I'll continue with the process at UA for now and ride it as far as I can. It's all academic anyway if they decide I don't fit their mold.