UAL has net profit of $52M for Aug

[WhiteCloud]

I am afraid my fellow ex ACA/Indy pilot is still brianwashed from the Indy kool aid parties... It was Jonestown baby and the 'this is my first airline job' types were lapping up the juice...

I just don't like UAL.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I just don't like UAL.

And why is that?

Why do you have to not like UAL?

 

[WhiteCloud]

And why is that?

Why do you have to not like UAL?

UAL has been a drag on the industry for the past several years. Languishing in bankruptcy year after year they have treated both the people they owe money to and their employees and retirees like dirt. I'd like to see them go out of business for these reasons. Clear?

 

[WatchYourElbows]

I'd prefer to keep my job. But thanks for the warm thoughts. Tell us how the unemployment line is, will ya?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

UAL has been a drag on the industry for the past several years. Languishing in bankruptcy year after year they have treated both the people they owe money to and their employees and retirees like dirt. I'd like to see them go out of business for these reasons. Clear?

Nope. Sounds personal. From your time as UAX pilot to the UAL Hate sessions in Brand Training and the FlyI Exp you have develpoed an unfounded hatred for a business that serves the dollar. Business is Business.

For your reasons cited above.. you should also have issue with the US bankruptcy system for keeping UAL alive.

Indy Air management treats thier employees like dirt too.....

My [cracked] crystal ball says that Indy is going to take a dirt nap. UAL will come thru. Once UAL is clear of BK it will renogotiate is UAX agreements.

Many Indy pilots were so pround to tell UAL to stick it. I recall one pilot talking about how high his peacock feathers (my words not his) were when he walked thru the new Indy terminal. I could only chuckle at the BS he was being feed as he asked for seconds.... Indy management never cared about the brand, they just needed to fill the trough with something....

Boys, it is all about the dollar...

More Indy pilots making statements like, "I don't care how bad we are doing, I'm just glad we told big bad UAL to pound sand"

Well, in 5 years AWAC may be (or maybe not) growing again with UAL doing fine. That could be ACA too, with most pilots employeed. Would you rather be flying UAX paint employeed or part of the Indy Air pilot seniority list chop shop?

Time will tell, but right now, the decision to dump UAL looks B-A-D.

 

[skykid]

You want to hate someone or a group or someones - hate the NY Yankees, or that sombich Bin Laden. Hoping for the downfall of others for some real or perceived personal gain is a bit pathetic. I don't wish anything but success for Independence Air.

 

[WatchYourElbows]

I think you have it backwards Sky. HE is wishing the destruction of UAL, not the other way around. We are just throwing it back at him.

 

[skykid]

Roger.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You want to hate someone or a group or someones - hate the NY Yankees, I don't wish anything but success for Independence Air.

Now you have to get Nasty......

First how can you hate the NY Yankees for donating 1MM to Katrina victims? In addition, they have worked hard to lead the division finally, with thier up and downs all year.... Now how long they stay thier is another story....

As far as Indy.. I wish them success but pragmatism says otherwise. I call it like I see it... They have alot of problems to overcome, that is just the way it is...

 

[skykid]

I don't hate the Yankees for donating money. I hate them for just being the NY Yankees. I also hate the Dodgers, and all Ivy league football teams.

 

[thruthemurk]

UAL has been a drag on the industry for the past several years. Languishing in bankruptcy year after year they have treated both the people they owe money to and their employees and retirees like dirt. I'd like to see them go out of business for these reasons. Clear?

So you hate UAL? Is that the line employee, the upper management, the paintjob or the logo?

You say you hate them because they have treated their employees and retirees like dirt. I guess you mean the upper management - the topmost who has been there for less than 3 years. He (Tilton) is totally protected if UAL disappears tomorrow, unlike the employees you were theoretically caring about.

Do you think wishing for the airlines demise is somehow better for the employees and retirees you don't like to see treated like dirt?

An airline is really the people that work for it, while the upper management revolving door crowd are the ones who set the policies and business strategies which end up determining the fate of all these people who do the work.

It seems to me that hating an airline is somewhat irrational. If you hate the people who have made the missteps UAL has made over the years - then you would perhaps wish for their removal or demise and the airline's survival, so that the employees have some shot at salvaging a small fraction of what they used to have.

The Delta and Northwest employees are just entering the valley of pain, and I wish them nothing but the best. Forces far outside the control of the individual employees (however good or bad) will dictate what happens to them.

Just my opinion,
murk

 

[WhiteCloud]

Nope. Sounds personal. From your time as UAX pilot to the UAL Hate sessions in Brand Training and the FlyI Exp you have develpoed an unfounded hatred for a business that serves the dollar. Business is Business.

For your reasons cited above.. you should also have issue with the US bankruptcy system for keeping UAL alive.

Seems like I'm striking a nerve here with you guys. I just don't like the way UAL behaved as a bankrupt company towards their employees and the companies they had agreements with. Are you making a case that UAL behaved honorably and with good business ethics while in bankruptcy? Legally? Maybe they got away with it but that doesn't make things "right". Anyway....that's why I don't like UAL.

 

[Regul8r]

Problem: Bankrupt Airline
Management's solution: Paycuts/Layoffs for employees, pay raises for executive management. Although Delta's Senior Management won't get pay raises for the rest of 2005. Bless their hearts, they ARE in the same boat with the employees! (Please add liberal amounts of sarcasm)

The issue to be addressed is with the mangement teams. Just because someone knows how to run a hotel or other business outside the industry doesn't mean they know squat about the airline industry.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Seems like I'm striking a nerve here with you guys. I just don't like the way UAL behaved as a bankrupt company towards their employees and the companies they had agreements with. Are you making a case that UAL behaved honorably and with good business ethics while in bankruptcy? Legally? Maybe they got away with it but that doesn't make things "right". Anyway....that's why I don't like UAL.

Wait till Indy declares BK. I can only image how compassionate Tom M. will be...

Look at it this way....perhpas if UAL were a fwd thinking airline that cared about its employees, like you think they should in BK, the Corp Elite wouldn't have managed itself into this mess. (hint: SWA).

Look at your history.. UAL hasn't been employee freindly since Pat Patterson. One reason the people like working there was the pay and bennies....

Your logic suggests that when UAL went BK all of a sudden they shall become compassionate to thier labor force, when if fact, it is logical to see that they would treat labor even worse while in survival mode.

White Cloud.. you're sideways.....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I don't hate the Yankees for donating money. I hate them for just being the NY Yankees. I also hate the Dodgers, and all Ivy league football teams.

So you like skank, convict teams like the Cowboys? (oops did I say that out loud ) It is a shame what they did to that place after Landry left...heck it is a shame what they did to Landry.....

 

[WhiteCloud]

Wait till Indy declares BK. I can only image how compassionate Tom M. will be...

Your logic suggests that when UAL went BK all of a sudden they shall become compassionate to thier labor force, when if fact, it is logical to see that they would treat labor even worse while in survival mode.

White Cloud.. you're sideways.....

If you check my past postings I don't think you'll find a whole lot, if anything, that defends INDY or their management policies either. That includes their handling of UAL and the UAL express business.There has been a lot of silliness in this whole UAL/ACA mess and a lot of it comes down to arrogance on both sides. My view is that UAL and ACA should not have messed around with something that was working. Maybe someone out there has some accurate figures......with all the costs associated with replacing ACA with AWAC and then AWAC with a slew of others they would have been better off leaving it alone or asking ACA for some token cuts and then move on to bigger cost saving items. Did any of this mess actually save UAL any significant money?

Incidently....I don't work at ACA/INDY now and like what I'm doing now. No reason to hit the unemployment line although I'm glad it is there when Americans need some short term help.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Seems like I'm striking a nerve here with you guys. I just don't like the way UAL behaved as a bankrupt company towards their employees and the companies they had agreements with. Are you making a case that UAL behaved honorably and with good business ethics while in bankruptcy? Legally? Maybe they got away with it but that doesn't make things "right". Anyway....that's why I don't like UAL.

If you like UAL so much, I bet you'll love NWA in BK.

Hate them all if you want but it is the justice department and politics that is keeping this world of pain going on and on. If mergers were allowed, labor friendly laws were in place and court decisions went our way, it would be incredibly different out there. For one there would be fewer carriers. If not by merger then by Chapter 7. The bad side is more pilots would be out of work or starting again at the bottom.

 

[WhiteCloud]

If you like UAL so much, I bet you'll love NWA in BK.

It's going to be bad. More lost jobs, pensions and desperate pilots hoping to keep something that resembles their former quality of life. By the way.....none of you has stood up and said UAL has behaved honorably and with good business ethics in all of this. I don't blame you all for wanting to keep UAL a float regardless of the tactics they use against their employees and creditors. It's tough starting over. No reason to apologize....we all have our price.

 

[GogglesPisano]

I think UAL has bottomed out and will become a lean, mean, profitable carrier next year after it emerges from Ch11.

OTOH, Indy will be a paragraph in someone's history of the airline industry.

How are the recalls going at UAL?

-- Goggles (ex-Indy)