UAL F/A strike authorized

[satpak77]

more good news from the media

http://money.cnn.com/2004/12/30/news/fortune500/ual.reut/index.htm

 

[rumpletumbler]

You know...I'm not 121 so forgive me....I'm clueless on all the strike bull(expletive deleted) but these folks are going to kill the airline because they want something the airline can't deliver? Sounds reasonable *rolling eyes*

 

[voteno]

You know...I'm not 121 so forgive me....I'm clueless on all the strike bull(expletive deleted) but these folks are going to kill the airline because they want something the airline can't deliver? Sounds reasonable *rolling eyes*

MAYBE that is their intention. Sometimes the job just isn't worth it anymore. Unless you are a SCAB.

 

[Dodge]

Kinda like being a pilot. We will keep accepting poor wages and poor quality of life so we can all be big time jet pilots. At least the FA's have finally drawn a line in the sand. Us pilots sure won't.

 

[satpak77]

Kinda like being a pilot. We will keep accepting poor wages and poor quality of life so we can all be big time jet pilots

I think the "airline dream job" is now just a fantasy. Look at the majors, and the "new" retirement programs in effect, or lack of retirement. What happens if both US Air and United shut down? We now have XXX thousands of airline equipment qualified pilots on the street? In line to work where? Southwest and JetBlue? Oh yeah UPS and FedEx is hiring if you have 10 recommendations (sarcastic, but....)

whereas before the "major airline job" was the job to get, now I think its gonna be FDX/UPS (Cargo), Fortune 500 (Microsoft, Conoco, etc), flying for FAA Flight Inspection (King Air, Lear 60, Challenger), Customs, etc will be the new "jobs to get."

In my opinion a balance of good salary + retirement is a good job. Look at UAL in the 90s, yeah the pay was great, everybody high five yourself and talk down to your buds at SWA who "work for less", but now what? Pay got slashed, retirement GONE, as in BYE-BYE, but hey, pay was great while it lasted.

I think the guy who is at HEB Grocery flying "just a Citation" might want to kick back and enjoy it. That FAA guy flying "just a" King Air to flight check VORs at $80,000 a year will likely stick around till that golden government retirement.

If I was a college student or high school senior, I would look at other career options and try to enter a field where I could maybe buy a C-172 and fly on the weekend.

just my .02 cents, not trying to start a fight

 

[jumppilot]

Look at UAL in the 90s, yeah the pay was great, everybody high five yourself

That reminds me of the "High Fiving White Guys".

I can just imagine five dudes in UAL uniforms jumping down the terminal giving each other high fives and a Southwest dude shows up, "Hey, can I join UAL too??" UAL guys reply, "Sure......NOT!!!!"

Anyone know what I'm talking about?

Sorry, I've had a few beers and that comment brought back memories.

 

[LarryinTN]

these folks are going to kill the airline because they want something the airline can't deliver? Sounds reasonable *rolling eyes*

During the cold war the US and USSR build vast quantities of nuclear weapons and the missles necessary to deliver them. These weapons were not built to be fired, they were built to convince the other side to settle their differences at the negotiation table instead of on the battlefield.

The purpose of a strike vote, and strike preparation, is not to go on strike. It is to convince management that you will go on strike if they do not negotiate.

UAL management is trying to get a judge to throw out the labor contracts in their entirety. The unions are gearing up for a strike in hopes that the threat of a strike will convince management to negotiate the concessions they need instead.

 

[jimpilot]

But if the airline can't deliver what the unions want without going under, and the unions go on strike rather than take what the airline can afford to pay and be competive, then the airline goes under.

Anyone with any business background knew UAL was going under with their current labor contracts. If they don't t get their business model inline with the industry, they will disappear. You can disagree with the fairness of it, but it still is a fact.

 

[KigAir]

Management will just replace the FA's with vending machines.

 

[jimpilot]

Shapely ones I hope

 

[rumpletumbler]

I say fire them all and replace them with Waffle House waitresses and pay them $75,000 a year. Then hire people to stalk them and make their lives a living hell so that when they are done they are on their knees humbled and broken, thankful for their new jobs at Wal Mart.

 

[rumpletumbler]

During the cold war the US and USSR build vast quantities of nuclear weapons and the missles necessary to deliver them. These weapons were not built to be fired, they were built to convince the other side to settle their differences at the negotiation table instead of on the battlefield.

The purpose of a strike vote, and strike preparation, is not to go on strike. It is to convince management that you will go on strike if they do not negotiate.

UAL management is trying to get a judge to throw out the labor contracts in their entirety. The unions are gearing up for a strike in hopes that the threat of a strike will convince management to negotiate the concessions they need instead.

That is a good analogy. Thanks.

 

[LarryinTN]

But if the airline can't deliver what the unions want without going under

The union wants the company to negotiate the concessions instead of asking a judge the throw out the contracts in their entirety.

The same situation played out at USAir with their F/As just a week or two ago. The credible threat of a strike brought management back to the bargaining table and an agreement was reached. That's what the UAL F/As are trying to do.

The problem with UAL, USAir, and the other network carriers is not the compensation or the unions. The countries most sucessfull airline is Southwest which is also one of the most heavily unionzied airlines and highest the paid.

Even if every USAir employee, from the CEO down to the lowest cabin cleaner worked for free, USAir's cost per seat mile would still be higher than SWA's! I haven't seen the figures for UAL but I'd bet that they are very similar.

The problem is productivity but it is not the contracts which prevent increased productivity, it is the inefficiencies of the hub-and-spoke system. If the airplane sits at a gate for 90 minutes, instead of 20 minutes, then a crew has to sit for 90 minutes, too.

 

[Jmmccutc]

You know...I'm not 121 so forgive me....I'm clueless on all the strike bull(expletive deleted) but these folks are going to kill the airline because they want something the airline can't deliver? Sounds reasonable *rolling eyes*

you have to think of it this way too...the media makes it out to be "MORE MONEY, MORE MONEY" but that might not necessarily be the case, there may be other issues involved ie. vacation time, health benefits, ect...

i'm not 121 either, but the "bull **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**" that you mentioned may be for reasons other than money, just keep that in mind...

 

[TurboS7]

If the labor agreements are terminated then you have nothing. The FA's have every right not to go to work. On the other hand management has every right to hire off the street and replace the workers with wages that they agree upon. Basically the airline is telling the employees if you don't like working under these conditions-quit. Ironically this is what brought about the demise of EAL and UAL is heading down the same path.

 

[jimpilot]

Granted the hub and spoke is not the future. But the US Air, UALs of this business have lost to much for to long. Their debt alone makes it inpossible to compete with SWA.

Seems like they have two choices; either get all their costs down below a SWA model and service their debt and stay competative, or go out of business. If the employees can't/won't work for the wages that will help cut costs, then the company must die. Insisting on wages that can't be sustained will only hasten the company's demise.

 

[jimpilot]

And by the way doing things like the US Air sick out that created so many problems over the holiday will put the company in a power dive. I doubt their will be a US Air flying on 1 Feb.

 

[ultrarunner]

And by the way doing things like the US Air sick out that created so many problems over the holiday will put the company in a power dive. I doubt their will be a US Air flying on 1 Feb.

There was no organized sick-out. It was loosly organized via a bunch of phone calls a few days before.

Take a look at the number of baggage handler/FA sick calls for 12/25/2003. I think you'll find it interesting.

If there had actually been an effectively organized sick-out, the airline would be shut down.

 

[jimpilot]

Call it what you like, end result was worse than a true sick out that shut down the airline.

Guess they really showed management. They put the final nail in the casket I'd say. Of course they will soon be unemployed, along with the folks who did work Christmas and tryed to save the airline.

What a shame

 

[ultrarunner]

Well, some folks feel they gotta take a stand. It's a desperation time at USAir, and in the end a few hundred calling in sick, or a few hundred working for free won't matter. IMO, it's over either way.

 

[jimpilot]

Yes you may be right. I feel for the folks who were stranded, or lost bags so they could take a stand.

 

[Dodge]

Jim,
Those poor pax could have flown on Delta and been stranded just the same. Or, they could have bought NWA tickets and got to their destinations.....3 hours late.

 

[atrdriver]

Yes you may be right. I feel for the folks who were stranded, or lost bags so they could take a stand.

Yeah, I feel for the people who bought tickets on a backrupt carrier becuase the tickets were probably $5 less than the other ones available on the internet. If you purchase a ticket on a bankrupt carrier you are taking a chance that they will still be in business when your travel time comes around. If you really need to get somewhere maybe that's not the best ticket to buy.

 

[secks]

So, uh, how much do flying waitresses deserve to get paid?

 

[mazbaird]

Just slightly less then flying bus drivers.