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UAL ERP Non-Beleivers ?

P3-Adub

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I was just wondering how many fellow UAL folks still think the threat of bankrupcy is still just a mgmt tactic ??? Wall Street sure does not think so. Any guesses as to what kind of cuts there will be without the ERP while in BK reorganization ? Looks as if US Air's pilots concessions of 25% could be a hint of things to come should we get into that mess. It really does not matter what opinions anyone has if we get there because there will be no contract to protect. Great strategy !

I find it unbelievable that other employee groups can be so selfish in these uncertain times, our way or the highway. Well we just may see that yet. I hope that the real threat is recognized and progress is made soon. "We gave our share" won't matter because everyone will get the cuts anyway. Better to have a say in how much seems to be a no brainer. Time will tell.

How was the road show ? I was unable to attend due to my other job while on leave due to reduction in force efforts. Any revelations ? Opinions changed one way or another ?

With our stock south of $3.00 a share, it surely does not take a rocket scientist to figure out we are against the ropes.
 

dog

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P-3 take a couple of deep breathes and relax. If you think the ERP is the "silver bullet" to fix UAL I will disagree. When BK happens ERP will carry the same weight as the contract...IOW not much. As far as how much we give that is also out of our hands. It all rest with the person in the black robe. Only good thing of BK is hopefully Dutta and company will hit the road. BTW the ERP creators are the same folks that thought that U was a great buy at $60 / share in 2000. Where would we be today if that "brilliant" merger would have happened?
 

P3-Adub

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Relax ?

Sure, no problem. I am just wondering how many other folks think bankrupcy is a good idea like you ? Hard to believe the LECs have all supported the ERP idea with the exception of a couple if it is such a bad idea created by mgmt. You say coolaid ? I say possibly however to take some action rather than watch and see what happens to us is my preference. We cannot dwell on what management did to us a while back forwever can we ? I agree that the US Air deal smelled from the beginning, we seem to be unable to escape that relationship for some reason.

My original post was to see what the climate was like under the current situation given that I am not there from day to day like you. What is the mood of the F/As ? How about the Mechanics ? Is everyone sitting around hanging on to their piece of pie until the axe hits ? Brilliant ! Am I in a panic ? No, however I would like to see success rather than failure. I would also like to see a reasonable contract in place to come back to even if it means an ERP.

Let the dice roll !
 

P-Factor

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I agree with you P-3, I'd much rather take action with this ERP than simply hoping things will improve. Management has put the ball in our court so to speak and given us the option to make something happen here. Is this ERP the best possible deal for us? Of course not, but at least they're not looking at pulling a Don Carty and getting rid of another 8000 employees. Just my thoughts.
 
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wafu39

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At least Carty had the balls to say that the problems in the industry are a result of poor management decisions and not labor costs as everyone else in the world would have us believe.

I don't get to vote but I would vote yes, just as a gesture that at least the pilots are willing to make personal sacrifice to see the company recover even if the other employee groups aren't.

I hope they make the right choice for the new CEO or we really are in trouble.
 

P-Factor

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Yea, Carty does have "Balls". All I'm saying is that those 550 pilots at AMR about to get furloughed for who knows how long, probably wish they had the opportunity to vote on taking a 10% paycut over losing their jobs.
 

banned username 1

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What puzzles me is along the same lines as above. As pilots, it's in our nature to minimize as many variables to the outcome of a situation as possible. To me, it's crunch time. Why anybody would not fight the controls to the point of impact trying to get something going for you in your favor is quite alien to me. But then that's my opinion....
 

HA25

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ERP is UAL's best chance to avoid BK

UAL78, P-Factor, and others,

This goes back to what I was saying last week about SWA kicking everyone's butts due to their significantly lower cost structure (read, pay, work rules, etc...). The only way for an airline to regain profits in the face of this is to take pay cuts to match and when times get good again, get those cuts back with interest. Otherwise SWA and JB will be the next majors and UAL and DAL and AMR will be small companies that fly a few heavy's across the pond, and provide RJ domestic service to compete. This would be disastrous to our profession.

The ERP will at least give the pilots some job security, albiet at a lower (still handsom) wage, this is worth more than money. But this isn't about the pilots anymore at UAL, they get it, it's the others! The UAL mechanics and F/A's should be publicly admonished by ALPA. They are the apitomy of clueless!
 

dog

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Time for clarification on a few points from my prespective.
1. I don't think BK is good nor do I want UAL to go there, but if we do, which is mre likely now that U pulled the trigger, hopefully the senior management will be gone.( looking at the glass half full instead of half empty).

2. The ERP if ratified won't save us from BK. The MC and "advisors" have stated this also.

3. The way UAL has done business must change and it should have been done yesterday.Not to dwell on the past but alot of cash has went to bad ideas..(Avolar, website, merger, downsize to profitabilty). Do you think this management can get us turned around? I don't. It 's time for a change in our business model, inventiveness, and employee relations.

4. I'm in favor for an ERP..some of the stuff in this one is good and some of it is bad. Someone had the idea/suggestion of voting on each item for ratification. (inventive idea). The 10% paycut is not the problem..it is the other things the no ERP folks have a problem with( ie scope, grievences)

5. I don't want the company to muddle around because it will die. We need a plan for recovery besides giving management money to spend on their business as usual model. The model and the way we operate must change to be an efficent sucessful company.

6. P-3 I am not there on a day to day basis as you think.
 

publisher

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tomorrow

I did an interview the other night for NBC and I indicated that I thought that United would be right behind USAirways in filing but that they had more problems.

1) Do not have labor agreements in place
2) Have no airline leadership in place
3) Have no plan at all

I must hand it to Siegel here as he really had the ducks lined up and if there is a chance of saving the airline he certainly structured this well. They have a cash infusion and can get out of some aircraft deals reducing cost.

Don Carty has also shown that he can make the tough decisions as well. While painful, they have a plan and are willing to take action.

The longer that United waivers, the longer and farther behind they will be.
 
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