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UAL Continental Merger Announcement

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Unions prep for UAL deal

By Julie Johnsson
Crains Chicago Business
Aug. 21, 2006

As UAL Corp. CEO Glenn Tilton beats the drum for airline consolidation, United Airlines unions are girding for a merger.

The Air Line Pilots Assn., which represents United's pilots, told its members in a recent letter that its leadership team is "well into its strategic planning" on merger issues. The Assn. of Flight Attendants has a team of outside advisers on standby, should the airline announce a deal.

And the union representing United's 17,000 customer service agents and ramp workers has assembled a 12-person task force of labor experts, economists and lawyers to study every possible merger combination — and the labor strife each scenario would likely engender.

"We're preparing ourselves for any situation that might come up," says Robert Roach Jr., who handles airline contract negotiations as general vice-president for the International Assn. of Machinists and Aerospace Workers.

The unions' planning reflects widespread belief that sky-high fuel prices and the threat of a recession will force airline mergers — and that United will be a part of the deal-making.

"United's management does want to merge the company; that's very clear," says Michael Boyd, president of Boyd Group, a Colorado-based aviation consulting firm. "The unions should be talking about contingency plans. In an airline merger, employees and consumers lose and the investors win."

A spokesman for Elk Grove Township-based United declines to comment on speculation about a merger.

Each of the unions is readying to navigate the stormy labor issues that accompany a major airline deal: guarding seniority; reconciling different pay scales, pensions and health care benefits at the merging carriers; and ensuring that a rival union doesn't encroach on their turf.

United's unions were caught off guard when UAL attempted a merger with US Airways six years ago — a deal they eventually helped scuttle. With consolidation rumors swirling again, they're determined to be ready.

"We learned that we need to be . . . proactive about the way we're dealing with those potential business decisions," says a spokeswoman for United's flight attendants union.

CHANCE TO RAISE MONEY

Doing a deal would give United an opportunity to raise equity from outside investors, which it badly needs to purchase planes and fully leverage its international network.

What's more, Mr. Tilton is the industry's most vocal advocate for lifting regulatory barriers to big mergers and foreign investment in airlines. "It seems that when Glenn Tilton appears in public, he mentions industry consolidation," Air Line Pilots Assn. officials wrote to members this summer. The union didn't comment on its merger planning.

POTENTIAL PARTNERS

While recent industry chatter has fingered Texas-based Continental Airlines Inc. as a likely merger partner for United, some industry insiders view Atlanta's Delta Air Lines Inc. as likelier. United and Delta's hubs and networks match up nicely, and they came close to merging in the late 1990s.

"Delta is focused on completion of its restructuring plan and emerging from bankruptcy as a stand-alone airline sometime in mid 2007," says a Delta spokesman.

Says a Continental spokeswoman, "We've said repeatedly that our preference is to grow alone and avoid the problems that mergers bring."

Another unifying factor could be James Sprayregen, who served as United's lead counsel through its three-year bankruptcy before leaving in June to head the restructuring practice at New York's Goldman Sachs & Co. Now, at Goldman, he is advising Delta on its bankruptcy proceedings.

Mr. Sprayregen declined to comment.

©2006 by Crain Communications Inc.
 
"In an airline merger, employees and consumers lose and the investors win." That's the only thing Boyd has ever been right about.
 
tomcash said:
Maybe it's United's 4.5 Billion cash on hand vs. Continental's 2B market capitalization. What part of Continental is not broken? The corporation has not posted an annual profit in the past 5 years. United would do well with Continental's European routes and the fleet types would combine somewhat well.

I can't seem to follow what you are referring to here in your post that is broken at CAL. Do you mean the orders for 36 more 737's or 2 more 777's or possibly 20 787's? Could it be the domestic and international route expansion that is planned with these aircraft? Or maybe you are referring to our plans to hire 450+ pilots a year for the foreseeable future? Wait, maybe you mean to point out the fact that the fleet types would be a horrendous mismatch. We have no airbus aircraft and no plans to get them. Our 777 and 757 engines are different than UAL's which means no fleet commonality. Care to clarify?
 
:puke:Merger talk for ANYONE with CAL would be a Losing deal for Continental. They are doing GREAT without anyone else.....let alone all of those "Crap" A320's that United has! Run AWAY CAL....Run AWAAAAAYYYYYY!!!!!!
 
Mergers are going to happen. UAL DAL and NWA will be in on them. I'm not sure who will hook up with who, but if CAL doesn't get in on the mergers then I think they will be alot less competative than they are now. Mergers also have nothing to do with how a company is doing pre-merger. If the post-merger company will make creditors and bankers lots of money, then the merger will happen. People that do mergers care very little about employees. Management teams who care about employees don't merge.
 
Tomct said:
:puke:Merger talk for ANYONE with CAL would be a Losing deal for Continental. They are doing GREAT without anyone else.....let alone all of those "Crap" A320's that United has! Run AWAY CAL....Run AWAAAAAYYYYYY!!!!!!

Have you flown the Airbus at UAL? Or at ANY other airline? I mean up front where those thing a mobies control the aircraft? I thought so.
Surprising coming from a person with so much experience....Oh wait, wrong guy.
why don't you stick with what you know which apparently is very little. What a putz.

Koko
 
Ex737Driver said:
I can't seem to follow what you are referring to here in your post that is broken at CAL. Do you mean the orders for 36 more 737's or 2 more 777's or possibly 20 787's? Could it be the domestic and international route expansion that is planned with these aircraft? Or maybe you are referring to our plans to hire 450+ pilots a year for the foreseeable future? Wait, maybe you mean to point out the fact that the fleet types would be a horrendous mismatch. We have no airbus aircraft and no plans to get them. Our 777 and 757 engines are different than UAL's which means no fleet commonality. Care to clarify?

What does having aircraft on order have to do with a company's future success? And, hiring pilots? What was the last year Continental posted an annual profit? This post was not meant to take anything away from your excitement of Continental's current growth. But, to think Continental is somehow floating near cloud nine is naive.

Continental does not operate any aircraft that United does not fly. Crew integration would be better than with other airlines. Continental only has a handful of 777s. And, United would be able to maintain a fleet of Rolls equipped 757s. They contract most of the maintenance anyhow.
 
Truckdriver said:
Mergers are going to happen. UAL DAL and NWA will be in on them. I'm not sure who will hook up with who, but if CAL doesn't get in on the mergers then I think they will be alot less competative than they are now. Mergers also have nothing to do with how a company is doing pre-merger. If the post-merger company will make creditors and bankers lots of money, then the merger will happen. People that do mergers care very little about employees. Management teams who care about employees don't merge.


100% completely correct!


What does having aircraft on order have to do with a company's future success? And, hiring pilots? What was the last year Continental posted an annual profit? This post was not meant to take anything away from your excitement of Continental's current growth. But, to think Continental is somehow floating near cloud nine is naive.

Continental does not operate any aircraft that United does not fly. Crew integration would be better than with other airlines. Continental only has a handful of 777s. And, United would be able to maintain a fleet of Rolls equipped 757s. They contract most of the maintenance anyhow.


Well for one, the fact that we are actually taking delivery of them instead of parking them comes to mind as a success check off. If we are to follow your criteria, SWA would fall in your "problem" category as well. My excitement of CAL does not overshadow my reality of our current situation, which I'm sorry to say, is far above where UAL is. As for clound nine, huh? You stated CAL had "problems" without stating what they were. I simply put out the facts of CAL as they are.

Actually CAL flies mutiple types that UAL does not, 767-400 and 767-200, as well as all "next" gen 737's.

You also refer to UAL's whopping $4.5B. What you fail to mention is their $11.3B debt which is more than 3 times what CAL's is. Yes our market cap is $2B but for an airline the size of UAL, a $3B market cap does not bode well. What does all this mean...............? UAL has more "problems" than CAL could ever begin to imagine.

Will a merger occur with UAL? God, I hope not. To be tied to the anchor of the Titanic is a death I would not wish on any airline.

As for an annual profit at CAL, see 2003.
 
More than CAL could imagine? You must be a new hire. CAL had twice as many problems a mere decade ago.......remember those 2 bankruptcies?
 
FlyUnited said:
More than CAL could imagine? You must be a new hire. CAL had twice as many problems a mere decade ago.......remember those 2 bankruptcies?

So true. AMR and UAL were screaming bloody murder to anyone that would listen at their inability to properly price their product due to CALs two BKs. In a few more years, it will be somebody else. Theres too much money to be had from BKs.....AND MERGERS.
 
Ex737Driver said:
100% completely correct!





Well for one, the fact that we are actually taking delivery of them instead of parking them comes to mind as a success check off.

Congratulations, UAL was accepting airplanes and hiring also up until 9/11. But you guy's are probably immune to that.

Actually CAL flies mutiple types that UAL does not, 767-400 and 767-200, as well as all "next" gen 737's.

BFD, 31 747-400 to your none
52 777 to your 18
37 767 to your 26 we parked the 767-200's
97 757 to your 56
260is narrobodies to your 260 ish narrowbodies.
So yea, glad to hear your getting a couple of new 777's. But you seem a little light on the heavy lift?

You also refer to UAL's whopping $4.5B. What you fail to mention is their $11.3B debt which is more than 3 times what CAL's is. Yes our market cap is $2B but for an airline the size of UAL, a $3B market cap does not bode well. What does all this mean...............? UAL has more "problems" than CAL could ever begin to imagine.

Have you check'd out AMR's or DAL or NWA's debt? Dude this industry is FULL of debt ridden companies....Yours excluded of course, because CAL was not leveraged to the hilt after 9/11 but congrats on not going bankrupt for the THIRD time.

Will a merger occur with UAL? God, I hope not. To be tied to the anchor of the Titanic is a death I would not wish on any airline.

Same could have been said about YOUR company....Many of times, but I guess we live in the now and not the past or future. BTW how long have you been with CAL?

As for an annual profit at CAL, see 2003.
Congrats.....Really, can we borrow your management :)
.......
 
Last edited:
koko nw said:
Have you flown the Airbus at UAL? Or at ANY other airline? I mean up front where those thing a mobies control the aircraft? I thought so.
Surprising coming from a person with so much experience....Oh wait, wrong guy.
why don't you stick with what you know which apparently is very little. What a putz.

Koko

Actually "KoKO" , YES, I have flown the airbus. I'm not a fan. I would take a Boeing any day of the week! Just my preference! I for one, like HAVING control of the airplane "ANYTIME" I WANT IT!! Not when the computer "Says So!" Fly Safe, Sorry that I have not been in the military for 20 plus years to get what ......9000plus? It will come soon enough!
 
Enough of the pissing contest boys, we may all be sitting next to each other in the future. Let's not make it too hostile. No matter who we partner with, there will be differences, let's just hope we all have JOBS.
 
Jonny Sacko said:
Enough of the pissing contest boys, we may all be sitting next to each other in the future. Let's not make it too hostile. No matter who we partner with, there will be differences, let's just hope we all have JOBS.

The voice of reason.


We have zero control over whether or not this rumor will come to fruition. If it happes, there will be many on both sides that are bitter for the rest of their careers. On that, I can guarantee. The combined company won't be a joy to fly at when you're stuck with a pairing where the other pilot is whining about the merger for the entire trip.
I hope that a merger doesn't happen, but I'm not going to worry about it until it's announced.
Good luck to everyone at CAL.
 
PA-22 said:
May be you meant: US Air was weak, AWA was doing ok.

Hmmm....you had a great west coast company that was underpaid merged with a ********************ty east coast airline that was bankrupt....what do we have now....A massive airline that is underpaid with ********************ty attitudes (east ) that is making money, but bringing down the wages of (so called) legacy carriers. That is how I see it. HP would have been better off by itself...IMHO It will take years before we see if this worked out or not.
 
koko nw said:

And yet you were loosing your asses off in 2000! 10 years ago is much different than 10 years from now. UA has a long way to go. Tilton should DIE! He should sip drano with Ornstein
 
FlyUnited said:
More than CAL could imagine? You must be a new hire. CAL had twice as many problems a mere decade ago.......remember those 2 bankruptcies?


Fortunetly I only had to enjoy one. For those that didn't see or read the original question, it was CURRENT problems, not past. We had our bad management era in the past and now UAL is having one. Does that make CAL better than UAL? On paper only. Will it continue, who knows? The rebuttal was to tomcashs' rather ignorant posts about CAL's problems with nothing but opinion to substantiate his claim.


We have zero control over whether or not this rumor will come to fruition. If it happes, there will be many on both sides that are bitter for the rest of their careers. On that, I can guarantee. The combined company won't be a joy to fly at when you're stuck with a pairing where the other pilot is whining about the merger for the entire trip.
I hope that a merger doesn't happen, but I'm not going to worry about it until it's announced.
Good luck to everyone at CAL.


Thanks. Actually we had quite a bit of control back in 1998. The DAL deal basically fell apart because of labor or rather the lack of labor to committ to following through the merger without a strike. I do agree with you, though, that if it does occur, fence or no fence, misery will love company.


Well for one, the fact that we are actually taking delivery of them instead of parking them comes to mind as a success check off.

Congratulations, UAL was accepting airplanes and hiring also up until 9/11. But you guy's are probably immune to that.



Never said that, but current events are better than past right now.


Actually CAL flies mutiple types that UAL does not, 767-400 and 767-200, as well as all "next" gen 737's.

BFD, 31 747-400 to your none
52 777 to your 18
37 767 to your 26 we parked the 767-200's
97 757 to your 56
260is narrobodies to your 260 ish narrowbodies.
So yea, glad to hear your getting a couple of new 777's. But you seem a little light on the heavy lift?


Which is why we have 20 787's on order. And no, I'm not trying to piss farther than you.


You also refer to UAL's whopping $4.5B. What you fail to mention is their $11.3B debt which is more than 3 times what CAL's is. Yes our market cap is $2B but for an airline the size of UAL, a $3B market cap does not bode well. What does all this mean...............? UAL has more "problems" than CAL could ever begin to imagine.

Have you check'd out AMR's or DAL or NWA's debt? Dude this industry is FULL of debt ridden companies....Yours excluded of course, because CAL was not leveraged to the hilt after 9/11 but congrats on not going bankrupt for the THIRD time.


Thanks


Will a merger occur with UAL? God, I hope not. To be tied to the anchor of the Titanic is a death I would not wish on any airline.

Same could have been said about YOUR company....Many of times, but I guess we live in the now and not the past or future. BTW how long have you been with CAL?


Granted. 1994


As for an annual profit at CAL, see 2003.
Congrats.....Really, can we borrow your management :)


No. :p
 
bearcat said:
And yet you were loosing your asses off in 2000! 10 years ago is much different than 10 years from now. UA has a long way to go. Tilton should DIE! He should sip drano with Ornstein

I'll drink to that. And your right, CAL has adapted nicely while UAL is still in the rape the employee business mode.

Peace

Koko
 
Ex737Driver, thanks for your level headed reply. Can't say the same about mine sometimes...Might be the Italian in me :)
Honestly best of luck to you and ALL the hard working folks of both groups and airline employee's in general.
 
tomcash said:
How long did you think United was really going to be number two to AMR??

In terms of what????

....market share?

....Customer service?

....Size?

If being number 2 to AA is a big concern to UAL's management, then their competitors are probably liking that way of thinking....

Tejas
 
koko nw said:
Ex737Driver, thanks for your level headed reply. Can't say the same about mine sometimes...Might be the Italian in me :)
Honestly best of luck to you and ALL the hard working folks of both groups and airline employee's in general.

Same my brother.:beer:
 

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