UAL announces Yr. 2005 Recalls

[flyguppy]

150 PILOTS TO BE RECALLED IN 2005

Good evening. This is Captain Steve Forte on Tuesday, February 8.

I am pleased to announce that we will be recalling 150 pilots from
furlough to cover our flying for the remainder of this year. We
anticipate recalling 75 pilots in the spring and another 75 later in the
year. Pilots will be notified by mail of the exact date of their
return.

This recall comes in response to normal pilot attrition and retirements.
It will allow us to maintain the strong on-time performance that we
provided our customers in 2004.

This is good news for our furloughed pilots and our division, and I look
forward to personally welcoming our recalled pilots back to the
property.

That's it for today. Thanks for calling. The next Hotline will be on
Friday. Fly safe, and let's keep running a great airline.

 

[pireps]

Excellent! May there be many more.

 

[Echopapa]

First off...congrats to all the UAL guys that have had to stick it out and will flying again. Welcome back.

How does this affect the total pilot gains or losses for UAL?

When I was intervied (and hired) by UAL they were talking 400 retirements per year. So is UAL brining on 150 furloughs in '05 to retire 400 for a loss of 250 pilots?

 

[skykid]

EchoPapa, there are about 240 pilots who will reach age 60 this year, 250 in 2006, and about that for the next several years.

 

[miles otoole]

Interesting to see who will jump-leave a job at JBLU, WN, or a Corporate outfit to come back to a job which may be out of business in a year. Who's desperate?

 

[Turbojet]

Miles,

Not likely to happen for folks hired by WN or Jetblue. I for one sure won't. So you can have my "old" job if you want it...good luck.

TJ

 

[GuppyPuppy]

I'm afraid that by the time I get recalled that I'd have to take a pretty sizeable paycut if I went back. I have approximately 950 pilots junior to me on furlough and would still have about 1000 pilots senior to me on furlough when these 150 get back on the property.


However, I can't say that I'll never go back. If given the opportunity right now I'd probably bypass and delay the decision as long as I could.

Congrats to those who want their job back and will be going.

Cheers!

GP

 

[P3-Adub]

What was the percentage of pilots that accepted the recall out of the first 40 letters a while back ? How many numbers did they go through to get to 40 pilots for training ? Bet less than 50 % take it right away. Will be waiting to see "proof of survival" before I have any interest in going back. Poor S.O.B.s can't be making much coin with the latest round of cuts in addition to the first round of bloodletting.. What does a 737-300/A320 first officer make a year there now anyway ? They would be at the 5 year scale ?

 

[Andy]

P-3, I think that they called about 70 to get 40 back. That percentage will probably drop off as they recall further down the list, but that could be offset by bypasses returning once their line number has a bit of seniority.
A year 5 FO on the airbus/guppy would be making $77/hr plus 9% in B fund and 6% in C fund (once pension is terminated) under the latest concessions.

I'm about 1500 from recall, 1350 after they get done with these 150. There are approximately 650 below me on the seniority list. I was furloughed Mar 02 on second year pay. Second year pay is now $49/hour. That's about half my current pay (non-flying job). I was making $85/hr as an airbus FO when I got furloughed.
Even if things pick up quite a bit in recalls, I won't be back on property before 2007; 2009 is more likely. I'll be 49 in 2009. I'll have to take a very hard look at returning; the last time that I flew an airplane was around Sep 2002.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

I'd be going back on third year pay which is about what I'm making now at JB. That's if I got called back today. By the time I get recalled I might be an A320 captain making twice as much as I would be if I went back on the right seat of the guppy (bottom reserve).

Something that might entice me to return is domicile selection. I'm a west coaster and miss it terribly. I'm sure SFO will still be junior, but who could go back and work there for $60k? I couldn't even afford a condo in San Jose back in '01 when I was making about $80k. Housing prices go up, salaries go down. But, there's a pilot shortage, right Kit?

Right now I'd say going back to UA is unlikely at best. But, you never know. When I got hired at UA I thought I'd never have to look for another job for the rest of my life.

How long may we bypass anyway? I thought it was two years, but I'm not sure how it works. If I bypass (years from now mind you) can I change my mind when further recalls are announced before my two years is up?

It was good while it lasted!

Cheers!

GP

 

[Andy]

GP, congrats on the job at JBLU. I had an interview scheduled for 19 Jun 00 at JBLU. My UAL class started on 18 Jun 00. The rest is history.

The recall bypass works a bit differently than a normal leave of absence, which is 2 years. It's been a while since I read that side letter, but the following should be close enough for now:
You can bypass being recalled and remain in furlough status. You can return at any time after bypassing (I'm not sure if they need to be actively recalling, or if you can just come back whenever you desire); there is no two year limit. You do not gain pay seniority (but your line number remains the same) while on recall bypass.
You lose all recall rights after the entire furlough list has been gone through and there is no one below you. In other words, once the 8 ball is recalled, they go to the most junior bypass and work up the list in reverse seniority. If you decline at that point, you lose your line number.
When the time rolls around, you'll want to reverify the above info.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

GP, congrats on the job at JBLU. I had an interview scheduled for 19 Jun 00 at JBLU. My UAL class started on 18 Jun 00. The rest is history.

The recall bypass works a bit differently than a normal leave of absence, which is 2 years. It's been a while since I read that side letter, but the following should be close enough for now:
You can bypass being recalled and remain in furlough status. You can return at any time after bypassing (I'm not sure if they need to be actively recalling, or if you can just come back whenever you desire); there is no two year limit. You do not gain pay seniority (but your line number remains the same) while on recall bypass.
You lose all recall rights after the entire furlough list has been gone through and there is no one below you. In other words, once the 8 ball is recalled, they go to the most junior bypass and work up the list in reverse seniority. If you decline at that point, you lose your line number.
When the time rolls around, you'll want to reverify the above info.

Thanks for the info, Andy. I had a similar situation with JB. I interviewed there in 8/99, six months before they started operations. I was turned down by the PHC due to lack of PIC time. JB said they'd like to call me when they start hiring F.O.'s. Started at UA in 3/00 and was called by JB in 5/00. Went with UA....yada, yada, yada.

So happy to have had a second chance at JB and am glad to be flying AND making a living at it.

Good luck to all those who will need to make the recall decision.

GP

 

[Steeler Fan]

Miles,

Not likely to happen for folks hired by WN or Jetblue. I for one sure won't. So you can have my "old" job if you want it...good luck.

TJ

Just curious, if you were at AirTran, would you go back to UAL?

 

[Steeler Fan]

GP, congrats on the job at JBLU. I had an interview scheduled for 19 Jun 00 at JBLU. My UAL class started on 18 Jun 00. The rest is history.

This industry is crazy, and you just never know. About 8 mths ago, I was at Scott Chop Suey, and one of your TACC comrades came in. He left Southwest to go to United (I think in 2000). You really will never know for sure if you made the "right" choice. In hindsight, US Airways was the right choice at the time because I was able to move back home, and living in base made the transition to civilian life alot easier.

I think I'm probably a little too paranoid about the industry though. I think you just can't let things that are beyond your control occupy your thoughts, otherwise you'll get an ulcer and die early.

I'm rambling...sorry. Good luck Andy.

 

[Andy]

SteelerFan, good hearing from you again. I hope all is well at AirTran, and hope that you have avoided the TACC cesspool.

One of the adages I was told long ago is that you never know if you made the right decision (regarding which airline to work for) until the day that you retire. Even then, there will be some doubt. For that reason, I was told to go with the first one that hires you and hang on to that number until all is lost; don't jump ship every time your company hits a rough patch.

At this point, I think the final glory days of being an airline pilot are coming to a close. Every swinging d!ck out there is willing to fly a couple of bucks cheaper than the last one, and work 2 hours a month more. Between the deteriorating work rules and the dropping salaries, I think that it will be quite some time before pilot pay reaches bottom. That's why I walked away from flying and am building marketable non-flying skills.

 

[spongebob]

Andy, I'm curious...when were these 150 pilots (the ones getting recalled this week) hired?


SB

 

[Andy]

Spongebob, I tried to look at the seniority list at alpa.org, but the pdf file link wasn't working. I'll take a stab in the dark and say late 98 or early 99.

 

[Ozzy89]

I was hired at ual mid nov 98. Got the call yesterday for a recall class of 2 may. hmmm my JB newhire class convenes on 2 mar. i wonder which way i'll go?

 

[spanky2]

FYI...benevolent Mama Delta started recalling last summer based on a judge's ruling...thru Dec 2004, the ripple effect was pretty high. The approx 40 - 50% that turned down the recall had options to take MLOA (mil leave) or PLOA (personal leave) or bypass. Break, break...recalls stopped for a month or so, now recalls have resumed under the new contract where the company recalls at their leisure / needs...BUT...starting in Mar the PLOA will not be offerred. Hmmmm. There are still almost 700 hundred furloughees at Delta, mgt says they need 125 more pilots for summer but will not offer PLOA. PLOA costs the company NOTHING.

Furlough me once, shame on you. Furlough me twice, shame on me.

Be careful out there.

 

[P3-Adub]

Amen Brothu ! I don't think the fat lady is singing yet at UAL. Just my .02 Gotta get the FAs and the Mechanics thru the BS first, why do I think there will be issues ????????