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UAL-ALPA Pilots to pay $44M to settle over screwjob of their members.

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UndauntedFlyer

Ease the nose down
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Posts
1,062
United Airlines pilots union to pay $44M to settle lawsuit by some members


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John Mansfield, lead plaintiff and retired airline captain. | Photo: Erik Unger



(Crain’s) — The pilots union at United Airlines has agreed to pay $44 million to about 2,000 senior pilots who claimed they were shortchanged by a lump-sum financial deal the union cut to get the Chicago-based carrier out of Bankruptcy Court four years ago.
The settlement puts to rest a class-action lawsuit brought by several former leaders of the union, which potentially could have cost the Air Line Pilots Assn. nearly $200 million had it gone to trial.
Legal experts believe it to be the largest settlement ever in a case based on the “duty of fair representation,” an area of labor law where courts usually give union leaders a lot of leeway to define what’s fair. “That’s a substantial settlement,” said Martin Malin, a Chicago Kent College of Law professor who has written a reference book for lawyers on the duty of fair representation. “It sounds like the union had a lot to be worried about.”

Although much of the settlement is believed to be covered by insurance, it’s a big hit for ALPA at a time when its finances are strained by airline mergers and diminishing pilot ranks.
The union declined to comment, but did not admit to any wrongdoing in agreeing to the settlement.
The case revolved around the distribution of a $550-million convertible note the union agreed to accept in exchange for termination of the pilots’ pension plan, a critical element of United’s strategy to exit Chapter 11.
The deal allowed the note to be sold for $537 million in cash, with distribution of the proceeds left up to the union, which chose to give junior pilots about $200 million more than their more seasoned colleagues.
The deal does not resolve the question of whether United ultimately will be on the hook for the money.
United intervened in the case to get a ruling that it has no liability and to prevent any reopening of its bankruptcy case, but the settlement heads off a decision on the issue.
On Thursday, ALPA sued United in New York state court to recover the money, according to a report. A spokeswoman for the airline said it had not received any court filings and would not discuss pending litigation.
As part of its bankruptcy agreement, United protected ALPA from having to pay damages stemming from the bankruptcy plan, with some exceptions.
At the very least, experts said it’s likely to come up for discussion as a bargaining issue when contract talks between United and ALPA heat up this fall.
“It’s a debit on the mental balance sheet,” said Jack Gallagher, a longtime airline labor lawyer with Paul Hastings Janofsky Walker LLP in Washington, D.C.
“United could say we have no obligation to discuss the $44 million,” he added, “but ALPA has a way to create issues when it isn’t happy.”
A secondary question is whether the settlement will inflame or calm down the friction that the case created between younger and older pilots, whose interests often diverge when it comes to issues such as pay, job security and retirement age.
“There was a lot of damage done to unity based on seniority levels,” said John Mansfield, the lead plaintiff, who is a retired captain for United and former chairman of the union’s Chicago chapter. “Senior pilots are looking at junior pilots with animosity and vice versa.”
About ten days before the case was scheduled to go to trial, ALPA settled, and the deadline for any objections by senior pilots eligible to participate in the class-action case expired Tuesday, making it final. “We took the case based on a simple analysis that these guys earned the money and the younger guys took it from them,” says the plaintiffs’ attorney, Myron “Mike” Cherry, a Chicago commercial litigator who runs his own law firm, which will collect a 35% contingency fee. “We thought just on the simple basis of equity we should be able to find a way to get past summary judgment and get to trial.”
 
Did UAL play any role in determining how the $200 Million was distributed?
No. UAL gave the money, $550M, to ALPA and said to divide it up fairly. The current lawsuit affirms that the ALPA junior pukes who were in a position of leadership, in effect, stole between $44M and $200M from the senior pilots who were retiring, mostly all at age-60, and gave that money to the more junior pilots. The age-60 retirees were leaving with no more than what PBGC was providing. The fact is that their pensions were stolen by their own union (ALPA) leadership.

Is this why ALPA is despised by so many pilots?

Those greedy junior pukes have cost ALPA $44 million by their misconduct. Possible criminal charges may follow. I hope so!
 
No. UAL gave the money, $550M, to ALPA and said to divide it up fairly. The current lawsuit affirms that the ALPA junior pukes who were in a position of leadership, in effect, stole between $44M and $200M from the senior pilots who were retiring, mostly all at age-60, and gave that money to the more junior pilots. The age-60 retirees were leaving with no more than what PBGC was providing. The fact is that their pensions were stolen by their own union (ALPA) leadership.

Is this why ALPA is despised by so many pilots?

Those greedy junior pukes have cost ALPA $44 million by their misconduct. Possible criminal charges may follow. I hope so!

Not defending what was done in this case, because I don't know any of the facts, but generally I would say that in nearly every other case in piloting history, the union sides squarely with the senior pilots, sometimes at great expense to the junior ones. Wonder if the old "B scale" pilots can go back and sue for lost wages?????
 
No. UAL gave the money, $550M, to ALPA and said to divide it up fairly. The current lawsuit affirms that the ALPA junior pukes who were in a position of leadership, in effect, stole between $44M and $200M from the senior pilots who were retiring, mostly all at age-60, and gave that money to the more junior pilots. The age-60 retirees were leaving with no more than what PBGC was providing. The fact is that their pensions were stolen by their own union (ALPA) leadership.

Is this why ALPA is despised by so many pilots?

Those greedy junior pukes have cost ALPA $44 million by their misconduct. Possible criminal charges may follow. I hope so!

Yeah, that's what happened......or was it the selling out of scope, benefits in hopes of saving the pension at any expense. KARMA BABY.
 
There is no question that the senior guys got screwed by having their pensions stolen. This was really a product of the big business country that we live in. It would not stand virtually anywhere else on the planet where workers earn pensions over 30 years of work for one company. Especially when that company that remains in business with $40,000,000 top executives the same year.

I would like to live in a place where the villagers come with torches and hang guys like that from a post with his balls in his mouth - not reward him.

Don't forget the fact that those junior pukes also had their jobs given away by the senior pukes while trying to save the pension. The E-170 was given away in a sideline deal that was never sent to the membership (or even the negotiating committee) by one of the buds of the quoted cAPTAIN mansfield". Currently around 6500 pilots flying the line now out of over 10,000 before the debacle.

That has come back to haunt the entire pilot group - but especially the junior. Bottom line is all seniority levels were screwed and there is plenty of blame to go around.
 
UAL went to the Canadian govt and tried to strip Knuck pensions. The govt said, pound sand.......

UAL went to the US govt and Bush said, "How can we help"

Can you believe those Canadians? They are all socialist basterds.....
 
The only thing criminal was the way YOUR generation not only f'ed up the profession but our country. Btw, how many of the plaintiffs are scabs? I bet a lot. Instead of baby boomers, you ******************************bags should be referred to as the "I got mine and now I want yours" generation.






No. UAL gave the money, $550M, to ALPA and said to divide it up fairly. The current lawsuit affirms that the ALPA junior pukes who were in a position of leadership, in effect, stole between $44M and $200M from the senior pilots who were retiring, mostly all at age-60, and gave that money to the more junior pilots. The age-60 retirees were leaving with no more than what PBGC was providing. The fact is that their pensions were stolen by their own union (ALPA) leadership.

Is this why ALPA is despised by so many pilots?

Those greedy junior pukes have cost ALPA $44 million by their misconduct. Possible criminal charges may follow. I hope so!
 
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The only thing criminal was the way YOUR generation not only f'ed up the profession but our country. Btw, how many of the plaintiffs are scabs? I bet a lot. Instead of baby boomers, you ******************************bags should be referred to as the "I got mine and now I want yours" generation.

Get your facts straight. Every person cheated was a participant in the award, a few may be scabs just like the rest of the pilot group at UAL. All named and listed plaintiffs were 'Battle Star" awarded ALPA members and some were prior ALPA officers. Personally I walked the line to save the jobs of the "get out of my seat crowd." You are welcome; but, some thanks, stealing my retirement. Well, my position was affirmed by the settlement, modern day ALPA is run by crooks. This $44M settlement was the largest ever against a union. ALPA can now claim to be the most dishonest union in history, with the biggest crooks. The Teamsters are way behind.

All this dishonesty and yet you seem to think it's OK. You must be an ALPA officer. Right?
 
Why ALPA has not been voted off at United is beyond me.

M
 
No. UAL gave the money, $550M, to ALPA and said to divide it up fairly. The current lawsuit affirms that the ALPA junior pukes who were in a position of leadership, in effect, stole between $44M and $200M from the senior pilots who were retiring, mostly all at age-60, and gave that money to the more junior pilots. The age-60 retirees were leaving with no more than what PBGC was providing. The fact is that their pensions were stolen by their own union (ALPA) leadership.

Is this why ALPA is despised by so many pilots?

Those greedy junior pukes have cost ALPA $44 million by their misconduct. Possible criminal charges may follow. I hope so!

From a $65,000+,Junior Puke...YOUR WELCOME! The best part was quitting a few months later
 
No. UAL gave the money, $550M, to ALPA and said to divide it up fairly. The current lawsuit affirms that the ALPA junior pukes who were in a position of leadership, in effect, stole between $44M and $200M from the senior pilots who were retiring, mostly all at age-60, and gave that money to the more junior pilots. The age-60 retirees were leaving with no more than what PBGC was providing. The fact is that their pensions were stolen by their own union (ALPA) leadership.

Is this why ALPA is despised by so many pilots?

Those greedy junior pukes have cost ALPA $44 million by their misconduct. Possible criminal charges may follow. I hope so!

Oh for God's sake flyer, give it a rest. Nobody stole anything from anyone, except in your own head. The democratic process was followed, a group of senior guys didn't like the result, so you sued, and that's the long and short of it. "Giving it the junior guys" meant that guys other than the "senior guys" got money and your group didn't like that, so you sued. Their pensions were not stolen by ALPA- they were seized by the PBGC on December 31, 2004. You would have lost your pension AND not had 550M to fight over had an ALPA hired adviser not devised the idea of floating that bond in the first place. You're MF'ing the very organization that gave you 550M to fight over.

You guys decided to settle. You could have taken it all the way if you wanted, but you chose not to, so that hardly affirms anything. If "criminal activity" had truly taken place, you wouldn't have settled for a fraction of what you all were seeking, so you can stop with the drama. Neil followed council direction (which was MY council by the way), so why you single him out is beyond me.
 
Neil followed council direction (which was MY council by the way), so why you single him out is beyond me.

You should have heard Neil's deposition. He completely cracked when he had to tell the truth. That's what cost ALPO the farm.

Just think of the gravity of ALPO agreeing to pay $44M for their wrongdoing for fear of the greater loss if the full amount would have to be paid. Also, Neil's depo would have been read publicly and he would have had to testify too. He was a terrible witness for ALPO. The truth to be spoken in public court was just too scary so they agreed to pay $44M.

And you really think this was a fair way to distribute the cash. No, it was stealing, just as it appears. The method of distribution was a railroad job that even you and the rest of the membership didn't understand. The membership did nothing wrong, it was ALPO that did what it could behind closed doors that was discovered here. ALPO has lost all credibility to all the membership. Besides stealing the cash from the pilots who were approaching age-60, that same union did everything they could to get them out the door, rather than try to keep their jobs. Yes, I'm reminding you of ALPO's (and Neil's) position on age-60: "Get out of my seat old man." What kind of union is that? ALPO was doing what it could to get rid of the most senior members who had paid the most dues. No other union would ever do anything like that, only ALPO.

In the end, it's not the money that counts; yes, $44M is nice, but it's the truth about ALPO that's important for everyone to know.

Trust me, I don't even think about this any more except for now since the settlement is finalized. I'm just going back to my good natured loveable self. I'm just glad I'm gone from airline work, away from the problems of dealing with ALPO, Neil, the TSA, TK, FAA, MD, EXO/WHQ, etc. That stuff really builds on you and you don't even realize it.

I do wish you and all the UAL pilots (even Neal) the best.

I will have no more comments on this subject.
 
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Does anyone think ALPA will be able to recoup the $44 Million from UAL? It seems like it would be a tough sell to the court that UAL agreed to pay for a mistake it had no part in.
 

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