UAL-ALPA Pilots to pay $44M to settle over screwjob of their members.

[eaglesview]

UAL went to the Canadian govt and tried to strip Knuck pensions. The govt said, pound sand.......

UAL went to the US govt and Bush said, "How can we help"

Can you believe those Canadians? They are all socialist basterds.....

I'm hoping that's sarcasm.

 

[ual321]

No. UAL gave the money, $550M, to ALPA and said to divide it up fairly. The current lawsuit affirms that the ALPA junior pukes who were in a position of leadership, in effect, stole between $44M and $200M from the senior pilots who were retiring, mostly all at age-60, and gave that money to the more junior pilots. The age-60 retirees were leaving with no more than what PBGC was providing. The fact is that their pensions were stolen by their own union (ALPA) leadership.

Is this why ALPA is despised by so many pilots?

Those greedy junior pukes have cost ALPA $44 million by their misconduct. Possible criminal charges may follow. I hope so!

From a $65,000+,Junior Puke...YOUR WELCOME! The best part was quitting a few months later

 

[ualdriver]

No. UAL gave the money, $550M, to ALPA and said to divide it up fairly. The current lawsuit affirms that the ALPA junior pukes who were in a position of leadership, in effect, stole between $44M and $200M from the senior pilots who were retiring, mostly all at age-60, and gave that money to the more junior pilots. The age-60 retirees were leaving with no more than what PBGC was providing. The fact is that their pensions were stolen by their own union (ALPA) leadership.

Is this why ALPA is despised by so many pilots?

Those greedy junior pukes have cost ALPA $44 million by their misconduct. Possible criminal charges may follow. I hope so!

Oh for God's sake flyer, give it a rest. Nobody stole anything from anyone, except in your own head. The democratic process was followed, a group of senior guys didn't like the result, so you sued, and that's the long and short of it. "Giving it the junior guys" meant that guys other than the "senior guys" got money and your group didn't like that, so you sued. Their pensions were not stolen by ALPA- they were seized by the PBGC on December 31, 2004. You would have lost your pension AND not had 550M to fight over had an ALPA hired adviser not devised the idea of floating that bond in the first place. You're MF'ing the very organization that gave you 550M to fight over.

You guys decided to settle. You could have taken it all the way if you wanted, but you chose not to, so that hardly affirms anything. If "criminal activity" had truly taken place, you wouldn't have settled for a fraction of what you all were seeking, so you can stop with the drama. Neil followed council direction (which was MY council by the way), so why you single him out is beyond me.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Neil followed council direction (which was MY council by the way), so why you single him out is beyond me.

You should have heard Neil's deposition. He completely cracked when he had to tell the truth. That's what cost ALPO the farm.

Just think of the gravity of ALPO agreeing to pay $44M for their wrongdoing for fear of the greater loss if the full amount would have to be paid. Also, Neil's depo would have been read publicly and he would have had to testify too. He was a terrible witness for ALPO. The truth to be spoken in public court was just too scary so they agreed to pay $44M.

And you really think this was a fair way to distribute the cash. No, it was stealing, just as it appears. The method of distribution was a railroad job that even you and the rest of the membership didn't understand. The membership did nothing wrong, it was ALPO that did what it could behind closed doors that was discovered here. ALPO has lost all credibility to all the membership. Besides stealing the cash from the pilots who were approaching age-60, that same union did everything they could to get them out the door, rather than try to keep their jobs. Yes, I'm reminding you of ALPO's (and Neil's) position on age-60: "Get out of my seat old man." What kind of union is that? ALPO was doing what it could to get rid of the most senior members who had paid the most dues. No other union would ever do anything like that, only ALPO.

In the end, it's not the money that counts; yes, $44M is nice, but it's the truth about ALPO that's important for everyone to know.

Trust me, I don't even think about this any more except for now since the settlement is finalized. I'm just going back to my good natured loveable self. I'm just glad I'm gone from airline work, away from the problems of dealing with ALPO, Neil, the TSA, TK, FAA, MD, EXO/WHQ, etc. That stuff really builds on you and you don't even realize it.

I do wish you and all the UAL pilots (even Neal) the best.

I will have no more comments on this subject.

 

[Poahi]

Does anyone think ALPA will be able to recoup the $44 Million from UAL? It seems like it would be a tough sell to the court that UAL agreed to pay for a mistake it had no part in.

 

[ualdriver]

You should have heard Neil's deposition. He completely cracked and had to tell the truth. That's what cost ALPO the farm.

Just think of the gravity of ALPO agreeing to pay $44M for their wrongdoing for fear of the greater loss if the full amount would have to be paid. Also, Neil's depo would have been read publicly and he would have had to testify too. He was a terrible witness for ALPO. The truth to be spoken in public court was just too scary so they agreed to pay $44M.

And you really think this was a fair way to distribute the cash. No, it was stealing, just as it appears. The method of distribution was a railroad job that even you and the rest of the membership didn't understand. The membership did nothing wrong, it was ALPO that did what it could behind closed doors that was discovered here. ALPO has lost all credibility to all the membership. Besides stealing the cash frm the pilots who were approaching age-60, that same union did everything they could to get them out the door, rather than try to keep their jobs. Yes, I'm reminding you of of ALPO's (and Neil's) position on age-60: "Get out of my seat."

I should have heard Neils deposition? How could I? Did you personally hear his deposition? Read a transcript? Got a copy? Did the guys on your side brief the members of your class and say, "Man, the testimony we're getting from ALPA is really helping us- let's settle for a fraction of what we're asking for!"

Enlighten me. Specifically post what Neil said that was criminal (as you imply in previous posts) or caused him to "crack?" What was the truth that was so "damning" that caused your group to settle for a fraction of the damages you were claiming?

I don't understand the "railroad job?" I went to every meeting. I was calling my reps. Read everything there was to read, and I don't understand? Pray tell, what is it that I don't understand? Is my feeble mind incapable of understanding union politics, or are we playing a game of "I have a secret"?

Do I think it was a fair way to distribute the cash? It was a way to distribute the cash. I voted, and our Council's direction was for PLSA. That was the most "fair" way in my opinion. My Council reps. voted as directed, and lost. That doesn't mean I go out and sue. It means I voted and lost and that's the way it goes. Fair, to the guys in this lawsuit however, means using a method that gets themselves more and junior guys less, doesn't it? What a surprise!

I do understand why ALPA would settle- there's a whole risk/reward thing to consider on their end......but again, if the evidence was so overwhelming, if ALPA's witnesses were so bad, why settle for a quarter of what you were asking for, and heck......even less when your lawyers take their fees? The ball was completely in this senior group's court (pun intended). You guys have been talking trash for months- he11 years! Then when game time came, you all took your ball and went to the benches- by choice. The lips of the senior guys bragging about this supposed victory say one thing, but the action - the settlement for a fraction of what they were seeking - says another.

 

[ualdriver]

I will have no more comments on this subject.

Yeah, I don't doubt it. If I tried to press you for facts, I'd probably just get more hyperbole!

 

[SoCentralRain]

Yeah, I don't doubt it. If I tried to press you for facts, I'd probably just get more hyperbole!

Just wait for age 60 to come up again. Wait for it...

SCR

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

I will make one more comment on this thread regarding ALPA. I do believe that the leadership of ALPA does try to serve the membership honestly and for the good of the whole. The Union sometimes does things behind closed doors that they believe is being done properly and in good faith but is later proven to be unfair. That is the case here. Neil, for one, never did what he thought was wrong for anyone, but it was apparently wrong in the end. Whatever his part was in the final decision to distribute the dollars as it was, I will give him the benefit of the doubt because he probably thought that the way it turned out was fair. Well, it wasn't but that's that.

I have no hard feelings about anybody or anything in this issue.

So that's the end, the issue and the lawsuit has been settled.

 

[Tail Gunner Joe]

So that's the end, the issue and the lawsuit has been settled.

The end(?) will come when the settlement dollars are in the actually pockets of the plaintiffs and that is far from settled. (esp. considering ALPA's doesn't have enough insurance.)

 

[Raoul Duke]

Does anyone think ALPA will be able to recoup the $44 Million from UAL? It seems like it would be a tough sell to the court that UAL agreed to pay for a mistake it had no part in.

not a chance in hell. The claim would be against the United bankruptcy estate and ALPA made the decision how to divide the money - not United. It will be paid by ALPA's insurance and the dues of all ALPA members. If DAL pilots were smart, they would bail from ALPA and leave them stuck with this albatross

 

[PCL_128]

Does anyone think ALPA will be able to recoup the $44 Million from UAL? It seems like it would be a tough sell to the court that UAL agreed to pay for a mistake it had no part in.

Odds are pretty good, but it will be a long legal battle. The language in the bankruptcy exit agreement is quite clear.

 

[ualdriver]

I will make one more comment on this thread regarding ALPA. I do believe that the leadership of ALPA does try to serve the membership honestly and for the good of the whole. The Union sometimes does things behind closed doors that they believe is being done properly and in good faith but is later proven to be unfair. That is the case here. Neil, for one, never did what he thought was wrong for anyone, but it was apparently wrong in the end. Whatever his part was in the final decision to distribute the dollars as it was, I will give him the benefit of the doubt because he probably thought that the way it turned out was fair. Well, it wasn't but that's that.

I have no hard feelings about anybody or anything in this issue.

So that's the end, the issue and the lawsuit has been settled.

Did you write that passage under the advice of counsel?

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Did you write that passage under the advice of counsel?

No not really. I just got to thinking about what some members posted and they were right about much of what they said. Long term, ALPA has been the best thing for the pilot group and I have been a benificiary. So all total, why bash the Union. Especially since it's really not my business anymore. Yes, I'm unhappy about the way the last few years went but I looked at the big picture which was more good than bad.

I really didn't want to leave the job since it was a way of life, but now that I'm out, it's really nice to not have to live your life around the schedule.