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UA/US Merger

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UA-US Proposal Has Better Chance Than in 2001

United-US Airways proposal has better chance than in 2001

Industry's struggles might make approval easier to get, but pilots still an obstacle


Dave Carpenter, Associated Press
Saturday, May 3, 2008
(05-03) 04:00 PDT Chicago --
United Airlines and US Airways saw their first attempt at marriage foiled in 2001 by the deal's high cost coupled with stiff opposition from lawmakers, unions and consumers.
This time, a proposal for them to combine could face an easier route to approval in Washington. But first it has to get past unhappy pilots and other obstacles that could ground any bid to create the world's largest airline.
The two carriers are in advanced talks to join forces, scrambling to respond to the threat posed by the proposed Delta-Northwest megacarrier. No agreement is assured, and either airline could walk away to seek another partner or an alliance instead.
Industry experts say United-US Airways would be an imperfect union - a deal fraught with risk but one that makes some sense competitively.
UAL Corp.'s United sees the chance to gain a bigger foothold in the Northeast, where it lags competitors, and attract more customers for flights to Europe. US Airways could tap into its larger rival's powerful international network. And there is enough overlap to provide the opportunity for significant savings.
However, it's not seen as nearly as good a fit routewise as the failed try at a combination between United and Continental Airlines Inc., and US Airways Group Inc. still hasn't resolved pilot seniority and other loose ends from its acquisition by America West in 2005. Also, high fuel prices and an expected decline in air travel demand could limit any savings.
"There's a lot of operational risk there," said Roger King, an airline analyst for CreditSights. "None of this stuff is going to help them tomorrow - it's all long-term, revenue-enhancing possibilities. But it would give (an expanded) United the largest domestic footprint of any airline."
United unveiled the first plan to couple with US Airways on May 24, 2000, bidding to dramatically increase its presence on the East Coast, strengthen its entire network and nearly triple its daily flights.
The proposed $4.3 billion acquisition quickly ran into opposition from the airlines' rivals, labor unions, Congress, consumer groups and state attorneys general, many of whom complained it would create a dominant airline that limited competition, particularly in the Washington, D.C., area.
Economic realities of the airline industry, which was struggling even before the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, also made the price tag increasingly exorbitant. By the time the Justice Department formally rejected the deal after 14 months, United already was moving to try to call it off.
This time, the industry consensus is that a United-US Airways combo has a much better chance of being approved by federal regulators, along with Delta Air Lines Inc.-Northwest Airlines Corp., especially in light of questions about the future financial health of both carriers.
Just in case, though, the rush is on to put together a deal that could be signed off on before a new administration takes over in January.
Morningstar analyst Brian Nelson sees the two carriers as likely needing to make some divestitures in areas where they overlap in order to be approved - the Washington area and perhaps also the West, where both have strong operational bases.
Their overlay of hubs also would be looked at closely. United has hubs in Chicago, Denver, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Washington's Dulles International Airport, while US Airways has primary hubs in Charlotte, N.C., Philadelphia and Phoenix; and secondary hubs in Las Vegas, New York, Washington's Reagan National Airport and Boston.
"It's difficult to say how much scrutiny there will be on this because the landscape is in constant flux as carriers are trimming capacity across the board," Nelson said. "It just seems that United is searching for anybody at this point, and I think that speaks potentially to their financial position."
United maintains it is financially sound, despite reporting a $537 million first-quarter loss last month that spooked investors and resulted in a huge sell-off of its stock.
US Airways would be a relatively affordable acquisition for United with a current market cap of $861 million.
Standard & Poor's analyst Philip Baggaley also says the two airlines' pay scales are fairly similar, which might make labor costs lower than they would have been under a United-Continental combination.
But winning over needed support from pilots and other employees could be a stumbling block, especially at United. Its pilots union has said a tie-up with US Airways would be "extremely negative from United's perspective."
This article appeared on page C - 2 of the San Francisco Chronicle
 
tit-4-tat, just like kindergarden recess:


http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2008/05/02/20080502biz-talker0503-ON.html
US Airways pilots group sees benefits in merger

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2008/05/02/20080502biz-talker0503-ON.html#commentsMay. 2, 2008 09:13 PM
The Associated Press
A group of US Airways pilots says that a combination with United Airlines could be a "beneficial long-term solution."
The America West Pilots Protective Alliance says in a newsletter it doesn't know the status of talks between the two carriers.
But the group said it would welcome a chance to rejoin the Air Line Pilots Association union, which represents United pilots.
US Airways pilots kicked out that union and replaced it with another one last month. The effort was led by a faction of East Coast pilots and wasn't supported by those on the West.
Chicago-based United and Tempe-based US Airways haven't spoken publicly about a deal, but those with knowledge of the negotiations say they're in advanced talks.
 
There is a list. The arbitrator issued it.

Right now, it's a car in the garage with no gas in the tank. The "gas" is a contract that allows the list to become "effective".

USAPA is gonna learn very quickly that any gas they buy has got to go into THAT car.


Dedication to USAPA's Bradford

There was a man on the road about an hour ago and he was lookin for a ride to
New Mexico
But we was driving by way too fast to know

We got to the place on a high speed chase there was a girlie in the corner with
a plastic face
Then she disappeared without a trace
I said without a trace

Now we're kickin back and we're sippin beers and there's a man telling stories
about his inner fears
We was all choked up and too close to tears
Well then we moved on up to some margaritas and we started makin faces at the
senoritas
Playing drinking games but they were all too drunk to beat us

Now my car broke down about an hour ago and we were headed on down to New Mexico
But we did not see the gas was low
I said the gas was low, etc.

We got back to the party, we been on the road we're kinda dirty
I've seen my girl, she's mighty perty

Well I said hello about an hour ago, and we were headed on down to the big
brass show
But we did not see the gas was low
I said the gas was low, etc.
 
There part of the company, you can't fire 1800 pilots just because their bases close or are downsized.

I agree the company can't fire 1800 pilots for not paying their dues. However....

If we do merge with United and there comes a need for large furloughs due to cutting capacity, don't you think there is a better chance that the company WOULD fire these 1800 pilots instead of furloughing 1800 others? Remember, it's always about the bottom line to the company...
 
tit-4-tat, just like kindergarden recess:

Figuratively, there is nothing wrong with the east that a smack from a two by four wouldn't fix. Loopholes and larger numbers have allowed the misbehaving of the century.

The tit for tat line would have been valid before the arbitration was complete, but afterword its bull********************.
 
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tit-4-tat, just like kindergarden recess:

Figuratively, there is nothing wrong with the east that a smack from a two by four wouldn't fix. Loopholes and larger numbers have allowed the misbehaving of the century.

The tit for tat line would have been valid before the arbitration was complete, but afterword its bull********************.

I have to agree. The East has gone past the point of needing a long, "time out" sitting in the corner. A trip out behind the ole' wood shed is now required.
 
If we do merge with United and there comes a need for large furloughs due to cutting capacity, don't you think there is a better chance that the company WOULD fire these 1800 pilots instead of furloughing 1800 others? Remember, it's always about the bottom line to the company...
You're right about it being about the bottom line for the company -- which is why your point (dream) of Parker punitively furloughing Westies makes no sense. Furloughs result from parked airplanes and which side they're on will determine how many.
 
putting the cart before the horse. No merger announced yet. Could just be the east....Phx is a low yield domestic hub. Opposite of what United seems to be looking for. At least the "East" (as seems to be the lingo) is in a higher yield/international market
 
Eaglesveiw,

Where do people like you come up with the idea of splitting a airline in pieces. The east coast is were most of the overlap is anyway. Its a pipe dream to think that Us Airways would be split up. I don't know if you have noticed or not but UsAirways doesn't have much international service when compared to others., they are no diamond.
 
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Phx is a low yield domestic hub. Opposite of what United seems to be looking for. At least the "East" (as seems to be the lingo) is in a higher yield/international market
Tossing around the word 'yield' without mentioning cost eliminates any credibility from your argument. Of course USAirways (East) has higher yield flying -- and they had it through two bankruptcies. Mostly a management problem.
 
TWA Dude,


You are correct I didn’t take into account the cost side which is a good point. I am going by what I have read in investment journals. JP Morgan had a good article concerning the UAL/LCC merger. As far as your comment on management, the real problem here is there is not a descent management team on either side. Believe me Tilton is no gem and “chug a lug” Doug is no better. I’d rather have Steve Wolf back, and we (ual) couldn’t stand him.
 
But is there time?

With oil pushing through $121+/bbl today, it sure looks to me like it's a race to the finish line for UAL between getting the merger done and having to declare bankruptcy.

They are sitting on a cash position very close to what they had last time they declared BK, and they're burning through it fast.

I would imagine if they go Chapt 11 before merger approval, it would make it virtually impossible to get merger financing. It's true that LCC has more cash than UAL, and no doubt that is part of UAL's motivation, but at this point where's the logic in this endevour?
 
I would imagine if they go Chapt 11 before merger approval, it would make it virtually impossible to get merger financing. It's true that LCC has more cash than UAL, and no doubt that is part of UAL's motivation, but at this point where's the logic in this endevour?

It is just an opinion, but I believe that UAL entering BK prior to a merger with Usair is a possibility, especially if the carriers are considering a significant reduction in their combined capacities.

A "pre-packaged" bankruptcy would allow for a much easier rejection of a/c leases and un-needed property leases, in addition, it would allow for significant leverage in the re-negotiation of outstanding bank debt.

Skipper
 
It is just an opinion, but I believe that UAL entering BK prior to a merger with Usair is a possibility, especially if the carriers are considering a significant reduction in their combined capacities.

A "pre-packaged" bankruptcy would allow for a much easier rejection of a/c leases and un-needed property leases, in addition, it would allow for significant leverage in the re-negotiation of outstanding bank debt.

Skipper

A "pre-packaged" bankruptcy, you mean like the "AA/TWA" deal; dump most of the debt and leases you don't want, and just take the assets you want??

Also, I have noticed the same thing; that UA's cash level is about where it was when they entered BK the last time. Additionally, UAL recently announced that they were in negotiations with their Bank to change some of the requirements on their loan facility. Also, a sign that 'cash levels' are reaching a serious problem.

It is very sad that such a great airline has been so 'mis-managed.'

DA
 
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A "pre-packaged" bankruptcy, you mean like the "AA/TWA" deal; dump most of the debt and leases you don't want, and just take the assets you want??

That is NOT what I mean. I simply meant a transaction similar to what would have occured, had the Delta-Usair deal been completed (DAL was in BK at the time...)

Skipper
 

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