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Type rating home study?
- Thread starter X-Wind
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Avbug, I don't know about the terrorist part. The 9/11 terrorist group did years of prior research that x-wind surely did not do to even ask his question. On the other hand Richard Ried (the almost shoe bomber) was not even sure how to light a match. Which terrorist is he more like from these two examples?
So what did X-wind get? Any references? How does he know if what was told to him is correct? If he will buy any thing that is told to him, I have a bridge for sale - real cheap.
Asking regulation advice (with out references) on FI is worthless. In my experience, the number of hours or type ratings can mean very little. At least he did not ask if he could get a type rating using Microsoft Flight Simulator.........
JAFI
So what did X-wind get? Any references? How does he know if what was told to him is correct? If he will buy any thing that is told to him, I have a bridge for sale - real cheap.
Asking regulation advice (with out references) on FI is worthless. In my experience, the number of hours or type ratings can mean very little. At least he did not ask if he could get a type rating using Microsoft Flight Simulator.........
JAFI
JAFI,
I think he meant examiner, though he said check airman. That was one of the things that caught my attention...aside from the obvious.
Can one obtain a type rating without attending Simuflite or FSI? Sure. Various examiners are available around the country who can do it. Can you self-educate and go rent the airplane in order to get the type? Now we're starting to get into ridiculousness territory.
Assuming you go get on ebay and find your own study materials, what do you do after that? After you've self-educated on the airplane and taught yourself systems and taught yourself to fly it from the books...where do you get the aircraft in which to do the type rating?
Yes, a privately orchestrated type rating can be had. For what it may cost you, you're just as well off to go get the type done somewhere.
The poster didn't specify the aircraft in which he intends to get the type rating. Some are easier and cheaper than others. If he's after a citation or similair type, he can still knock one out for six or seven grand at some places. If he's after a 737 type, he can do it for the same. If he's after a Hawker type or a Gulfstream type, he's into 20 to 40,000 or more, depending on the source. If he's after a Sabreliner type, he can get it dirt cheap if he knows where to look.
Then again, when it comes to training on aircraft which require a type rating, dirt cheap isn't really appropriate. Proper and thorough would be a better approach.
Perhaps the poster is employed as an SIC with a corporate or charter operator who won't type him, and hopes that he can arrange the type on his own. This is possible, but then most insurance carriers want to see a recognized standard of training...most aren't at all interested in the pilot who snapped up a book and taught himself to fly. It can be done, mind you...but try putting that on your resume or selling your qualifications to ARGUS/WYVERN rated companies. It's a hard sell.
Is the poster a private pilot or private owner looking for his own type? Possibly; he or she refused to provide anything but an attitude and a silly question. If this is the case, then he or she would be very well advised to seek out Simuflite or FSI and pursue the proper training. Then again, if he or she could afford the airplane, the he or she could certainly afford the training.
If he or she actually has the 767 rating as their bio states, then that person is familiar with a proper level of training, and what's involved in an advanced airplane. Such a person would know better than to seek out a type rating based on studying a book then finding a DPE to take the test. Thererfore, it's reasonable to infer that the poster either doesn't have the experience he or she claims, or is rather thick.
If you want a job in an aircraft requiring a type, the best bet is to get employed by an operator flying that aircraft, and get typed by the operator. If you think getting the type on the side and on the cheap will get you into a job in the airplane either it's an operator for whom you really ought not be working, or it's wasted effort. You end up with a type rating and no credentials behind it, questionable training (your own), and a paper rating. Some employers may buy this...again, these are the cut rate operators you really don't want to work for.
Now, I know PFE's who want a type rating in the hopes it gets them into the right seat. Fair enough, but the company will give them that shot if they meet the minimum flight experience requirements. I spoke to one recently who is pursuing that option, and wanted to do something similiar. He wondered if having the type might give him a better shot. No, and in fact, it might hurt him. If he shows up for upgrade training with the type, he's going to be held to a higher standard right off the bat and it will work against him. I've watched some wash out who went out and spent good money on expensive sim time in the hopes it might give them a leg up. The company takes care of the training. All they need do is arrive with an open mind and a willingness to learn. Throwing money away on self training and a type, especially one not earned through recognized channels, is a weak effort. Admirable, but weak.
It's the same type rating we all hold. The FAA doesn't issue one type for those who obtained it at a recognized 142 training facility vs. one who obtains his through self study, of course. That's a fact. It's fact lost on the operator who has to square with the insurance company, however. The insurance company generally sets those terms, and in most cases the insurance will want a known standard of training vs. self-study and taking the test...assuming you can find an underwriter who's willing to let you take the airplane out for a practical test after picking up a book and teaching yourself to fly it.
Is that a more clear picture, or is the original poster willing to be a little more forthcoming regarding the details of his or her enquiery?
---Here you go. Took all of a few seconds searching. These folks are currently looking for Learjet and Citation pilots. They'll type you, all they require is that you hold the ATP written. Presently hiring. There's lot more out there, and you dont' have to pay for a thing...
http://www.northernjet.net/
I think he meant examiner, though he said check airman. That was one of the things that caught my attention...aside from the obvious.
Can one obtain a type rating without attending Simuflite or FSI? Sure. Various examiners are available around the country who can do it. Can you self-educate and go rent the airplane in order to get the type? Now we're starting to get into ridiculousness territory.
Assuming you go get on ebay and find your own study materials, what do you do after that? After you've self-educated on the airplane and taught yourself systems and taught yourself to fly it from the books...where do you get the aircraft in which to do the type rating?
Yes, a privately orchestrated type rating can be had. For what it may cost you, you're just as well off to go get the type done somewhere.
The poster didn't specify the aircraft in which he intends to get the type rating. Some are easier and cheaper than others. If he's after a citation or similair type, he can still knock one out for six or seven grand at some places. If he's after a 737 type, he can do it for the same. If he's after a Hawker type or a Gulfstream type, he's into 20 to 40,000 or more, depending on the source. If he's after a Sabreliner type, he can get it dirt cheap if he knows where to look.
Then again, when it comes to training on aircraft which require a type rating, dirt cheap isn't really appropriate. Proper and thorough would be a better approach.
Perhaps the poster is employed as an SIC with a corporate or charter operator who won't type him, and hopes that he can arrange the type on his own. This is possible, but then most insurance carriers want to see a recognized standard of training...most aren't at all interested in the pilot who snapped up a book and taught himself to fly. It can be done, mind you...but try putting that on your resume or selling your qualifications to ARGUS/WYVERN rated companies. It's a hard sell.
Is the poster a private pilot or private owner looking for his own type? Possibly; he or she refused to provide anything but an attitude and a silly question. If this is the case, then he or she would be very well advised to seek out Simuflite or FSI and pursue the proper training. Then again, if he or she could afford the airplane, the he or she could certainly afford the training.
If he or she actually has the 767 rating as their bio states, then that person is familiar with a proper level of training, and what's involved in an advanced airplane. Such a person would know better than to seek out a type rating based on studying a book then finding a DPE to take the test. Thererfore, it's reasonable to infer that the poster either doesn't have the experience he or she claims, or is rather thick.
If you want a job in an aircraft requiring a type, the best bet is to get employed by an operator flying that aircraft, and get typed by the operator. If you think getting the type on the side and on the cheap will get you into a job in the airplane either it's an operator for whom you really ought not be working, or it's wasted effort. You end up with a type rating and no credentials behind it, questionable training (your own), and a paper rating. Some employers may buy this...again, these are the cut rate operators you really don't want to work for.
Now, I know PFE's who want a type rating in the hopes it gets them into the right seat. Fair enough, but the company will give them that shot if they meet the minimum flight experience requirements. I spoke to one recently who is pursuing that option, and wanted to do something similiar. He wondered if having the type might give him a better shot. No, and in fact, it might hurt him. If he shows up for upgrade training with the type, he's going to be held to a higher standard right off the bat and it will work against him. I've watched some wash out who went out and spent good money on expensive sim time in the hopes it might give them a leg up. The company takes care of the training. All they need do is arrive with an open mind and a willingness to learn. Throwing money away on self training and a type, especially one not earned through recognized channels, is a weak effort. Admirable, but weak.
It's the same type rating we all hold. The FAA doesn't issue one type for those who obtained it at a recognized 142 training facility vs. one who obtains his through self study, of course. That's a fact. It's fact lost on the operator who has to square with the insurance company, however. The insurance company generally sets those terms, and in most cases the insurance will want a known standard of training vs. self-study and taking the test...assuming you can find an underwriter who's willing to let you take the airplane out for a practical test after picking up a book and teaching yourself to fly it.
Is that a more clear picture, or is the original poster willing to be a little more forthcoming regarding the details of his or her enquiery?
---Here you go. Took all of a few seconds searching. These folks are currently looking for Learjet and Citation pilots. They'll type you, all they require is that you hold the ATP written. Presently hiring. There's lot more out there, and you dont' have to pay for a thing...
http://www.northernjet.net/
Last edited:
Avbug, I'm not saying that you are wrong, but on
the other hand almost every job post in the corporate or charter sector requires that you already have a type rating for the position desired.
So if X-Wind actually does fly the 757 with 10,000 hrs. and looking for PIC positoin in a Citaion and the type might make him a little marketable. The type might get him the job and he would then go to school on the employers dime.
Again not saying that you are wrong, just giving a different perspective.
the other hand almost every job post in the corporate or charter sector requires that you already have a type rating for the position desired.
So if X-Wind actually does fly the 757 with 10,000 hrs. and looking for PIC positoin in a Citaion and the type might make him a little marketable. The type might get him the job and he would then go to school on the employers dime.
Again not saying that you are wrong, just giving a different perspective.
That was actually part of the point. Lacking the experience in type, having only a type rating does very little. Again, insurance dictates, but most firms look for someone with 100, 300, or 500 hours in type.
Yes, there are scenarios in which the pilot might wish to go get the type. But again, who's going to loan him their citation, and how are they going to insure him, when he ran out, bought a book on ebay (or wherever), and taught himself to fly the airplane before recommending himself for a practical test (we haven't even touched that one, yet)?
If it's a citation type, then go get a type for five or six grand, apply, and go to school. Or get hired, and get the type while at school. If he's truly the material for which the employer seeks, then the employer who is going to send him to school anyway will have no problem typing him while he's there.
The scenario as presented at the outset of the thread, coupled with the posters attitude and his published qualifications do not jive.
Yes, there are scenarios in which the pilot might wish to go get the type. But again, who's going to loan him their citation, and how are they going to insure him, when he ran out, bought a book on ebay (or wherever), and taught himself to fly the airplane before recommending himself for a practical test (we haven't even touched that one, yet)?
If it's a citation type, then go get a type for five or six grand, apply, and go to school. Or get hired, and get the type while at school. If he's truly the material for which the employer seeks, then the employer who is going to send him to school anyway will have no problem typing him while he's there.
The scenario as presented at the outset of the thread, coupled with the posters attitude and his published qualifications do not jive.
Amish RakeFight
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svcta
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The 2 corporate jobs I've had (one of which I have now) I got without a type rating or time in type. Buying yourself a type rating in order to attract a job offer may only leave you thousands or even tens-of-thousands of dollars poorer.
And a 6 thousand dollar Citation type is virtually worthless, based on what I've been told by the people who have them and people who've been in a position to hire somebody with one.
And I agree with Avbug way back when he called the original poster out for bogus credentials.
I wonder about a 10,000 hour "professional" pilot who knows so little of their craft that they have not experienced certification enough or do not know where to look for such a simple answer. I have met some of the "richest" pilots in terms of knowing their craft and some of the "poorest". Sometimes I wonder how they ever got the rating. And sometimes they get Re-examined (44709) for that rating.
For the idea of a "quick" type rating for a job, I gave a 135 check to a new (ink still wet) type rated pilot who told me prior to the check ride that he "just got the rating for the job". The check ride went bad when it was time to start the engines. He did not know how. He told me the school would not let the students start the aircraft engines because they kept damaging them. I sat there as he kept going through the check list trying to figure out how to start the engines. He never did. I did not let him damage anything but he tried to find the right start switch. I filed my report. I heard he lost the job, and the type rating. The school got a visit from the local office. So much for "quick" rating.
JAFI
For the idea of a "quick" type rating for a job, I gave a 135 check to a new (ink still wet) type rated pilot who told me prior to the check ride that he "just got the rating for the job". The check ride went bad when it was time to start the engines. He did not know how. He told me the school would not let the students start the aircraft engines because they kept damaging them. I sat there as he kept going through the check list trying to figure out how to start the engines. He never did. I did not let him damage anything but he tried to find the right start switch. I filed my report. I heard he lost the job, and the type rating. The school got a visit from the local office. So much for "quick" rating.
JAFI
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