Twin Comanche

[desertdog71]

Anybody have experience in these? This will be the PA-30 model not PA-39. My FBO is buying one for twin traing, and I would like to hear some details if anybody wants to share.

Thanks

 

[Ralgha]

Bad choice for training, but it's a hotrod. Tends to levitate off the ground prior to redline. Nasty stall and nastier Vmc characteristics. Fast, fuel efficient, relatively hard to slow down. Usually no brakes on the instructor side. Did I mention it's a bad trainer? Great for travelling though. Much better that that craphole of an airplane called a Seminole.

 

[MFRskyknight]

No brakes on the instructor side of the single Comanche 250 I picked up my HP signoff in... but that's what the Oh Sh!t handle in the middle is for!

MFR

 

[desertdog71]

Bad choice for training, but it's a hotrod. Tends to levitate off the ground prior to redline. Nasty stall and nastier Vmc characteristics. Fast, fuel efficient, relatively hard to slow down. Usually no brakes on the instructor side. Did I mention it's a bad trainer? Great for travelling though. Much better that that craphole of an airplane called a Seminole.

Yeah, I have heard that the Vmc is high, but is that what makes it a bad trainer?

 

[Ralgha]

Yeah, I have heard that the Vmc is high, but is that what makes it a bad trainer?

No, not really, any moron should be able to keep the speed above redline once it gets up there, and the actual speed of Vmc isn't that big a deal in training.

The airplane is very unforgiving. It was not built to be a trainer, it was built to travel. It has a high performance wing that absolutely hates stalls. It can easily eat your lunch and then sh!t it back on you if you let your guard down. It's also very hard to land. It's great at what it was intended for, going places, not training.

 

[desertdog71]

Sounds like fun then.

It was selected because my CFI has tons of hours in Twin Comanches, and also the DPE for our area has tons of hours in one. The fact that its difficult to fly should make for some sharper skills. I am not opposed to that. I appreciate the input though, I do see how this could be a problem. I don't want you to think I am discouting your opinion. I was interested to see what other people thought of these planes. My CFI mentioned that they like to float on landings, and that they are indeed pretty fast little planes.

Looking at it from the FBO viewpoint though. CFI has tons of time and DPE also. Initial cost is relatively low, 15 GPH fuel burn. Should be interesting.

 

[FlaZoomie]

With the higher Vmc and the speed/performance, don't feel it is an ideal trainer. Has your boss looked into the insurance requirements too?

Difficultlty in a training/entry level a/c could be a safety issue for the low time CFI/MEI and a student that is too behind the a/c.

Ditto on the other coment, it is a great x-country plane.

 

[transpac]

Have you guys actually instructed in a Twin Comanche? It's not at all hard to fly and is definitely not hard to land. The stalls are very gentle and the only nasty thing I ever experienced was when I didn't prevent a multi engine student from jerking the yoke and stalling it during a VMC demo. Even then it wasn't a big problem to recover.

 

[Ralgha]

Have you guys actually instructed in a Twin Comanche? It's not at all hard to fly and is definitely not hard to land. The stalls are very gentle and the only nasty thing I ever experienced was when I didn't prevent a multi engine student from jerking the yoke and stalling it during a VMC demo. Even then it wasn't a big problem to recover.

Yes, actually, I have. Are we talking about the same Twin Commanche?

 

[taloft]

It's not that bad as a trainer, but requires someone who is familiar with Twin Comanches to be used successfully for training. The high-speed/low drag wing is the main culprit. The instructor should have quite a few hours in type and have been trained by someone who has. Like any twin, you can't let things go too far or bad things will happen. If you've flown a Seminole or similar, don't think you can just hop in a Twinkie and zoom off into the blue yonder.

I've checked out other instructors in the plane and it can be done safely, but you must know to tell them, "you can do this, but don't do this and you sure as hell don't want to do that."

 

[desertdog71]

Thanks for the replies. My CFI has over 500 hours in Type and the DPE more than that. I am sure they will make sure I can handle things. I just fail to see why this plane should be avoided? Just because its a little more difficult than others should not make it a poor trainer. This should be appreciated from the standpoint that I will eventually transition to even higher performance aircraft later.

 

[Slice121]

Thanks for the replies. My CFI has over 500 hours in Type and the DPE more than that. I am sure they will make sure I can handle things. I just fail to see why this plane should be avoided? Just because its a little more difficult than others should not make it a poor trainer. This should be appreciated from the standpoint that I will eventually transition to even higher performance aircraft later.

Do you really have 90 hours? If so, you'll understand in a few more years...

 

[void]

Where is this fbo? I'd be interested in some Twin Comanche time.

 

[scottn2flying]

Take a look at this thread( http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=61927&highlight=twin+comanche), I started awhile ago. Should help with any questions. Also,anyone interested in renting a Twin Comanche or getting their multi let me know.
Scott

 

[dardar]

the landing is really weird. It almost seems as if there is TOO MUCH visibility from the cockpit. Sounds strange, but that's the problem I had with it. I never seemed to have any trouble with the stalls or Vmc, but the landing was funky.

I know insurance companies are often bogus on time requirements, but there is a reason they are so much hire for the Twin Comanche.

 

[dragland]

My boss had one for a while and his insurance company would only write it with a $10,000 gear deductable because the main gear tends to collapse with even a moderate amount of sideload. We were always VERY careful in x-wind landings. I second what everyone has said about them being great for x-country.