Turkish Airline 737 Crash in AMS

Amish RakeFight

Registered Loser
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
Posts
8,006
Total Time
.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/26/world/europe/26amsterdam.html?hp


February 26, 2009

9 Dead as Turkish Plane Crashes Near Amsterdam

By CAROLINE BROTHERS and SEBNEM ARSU
PARIS — A Turkish Airlines jet carrying 135 people crashed into a field on its approach to Schiphol Airport outside Amsterdam after a flight from Istanbul on Wednesday, killing nine people and injuring 50, airport authorities and Turkish officials said.

In Ankara, Suat Hayri Aka, a senior transportation official, told a news conference that 20 of the injured appeared to be in serious condition. Three of the dead were crew members, according to Turkish news reports.Television images showed the aircraft, a Boeing 737-800, lying fractured into three parts after it slammed into the ground while approaching the runway. The aircraft did not catch fire.

Witnesses said the plane’s engines broke off and landed some about 100 yards from the wrecked fuselage in a plowed field.

Michel Bezuijen, acting mayor of Haarlemmermeer, close to Schiphol, told a news conference: “At this moment there are nine victims to mourn and more than 50 injured.”
He said there was no immediate word on the cause of the accident.
In the confusion following the crash, reports varied over how far the site was from the runway. Initial reports said it was three miles from the airport, but later versions put it closer.

In a statement, the Amsterdam airport authorities said the plane, Turkish Airlines flight TK1951, which left Istanbul at 8:22 a.m. on Wednesday, made a crash landing along a highway near the airport with 128 passengers and 7 crew members on board.

Flights to and from the airport, halted because of the accident, were gradually being resumed, the airport said.
The crash took place in calm weather with a light drizzle. Unlike a deadly accident in Madrid last summer when a Spanair flight crashed while taking off, no fire broke out during Wednesday’s crash.

Tuncer Mutlucan, a passenger who survived the crash, told NTV, a private broadcaster in Turkey, “It was the back of the plane that hit the ground. We left the plane from the back. My colleague and I saw people stuck in between seats as we were trying to leave and we tried to help them.”

“ It all happened in something like ten seconds,” Mr. Mutlucan said
Candan Karlitekin, the chairman of Turkish Airlines, said most of the injured were seated at the back of the plane.
“There was nothing extraordinary about the weather conditions, vision capability was 4,500 meters. Around 500 meters away from the landing strip, the plane landed in a field. The plane was broken into three parts, as you all saw in pictures.”

Mr. Kotil said that the pilot, Hasan Tahsin Ari, was one of the airline’s most experienced pilots. The company was planning a flight from to Amsterdam from Istanbul for relatives of the crash victims.

The International Air Transport Association representing 230 scheduled airlines, said last week that the number of fatal air crashes increased to 23 in 2008 from 20 the year before. However, fatalities decreased to 502 from 692 in 2007.

Schiphol was the scene of a catastrophic air crash in 1992 when an El Al cargo plane hit a high-rise building in the Amsterdam suburb of Bijlmermeer, unleashing an inferno in which 43 people died.

In more recent incidents, 50 people died two weeks ago when a Continental Airlines flight from Newark to Buffalo, New York, crashed into a house about five miles from Buffalo Niagara International Airport.

All passengers and crew escaped from a US Airways plane when the pilot ditched it in the Hudson River shortly after takeoff from New York’s LaGuardia airport earlier this year.

Caroline Brothers reported from Paris, and Sebnem Arsu from Istanbul.
 

Amish RakeFight

Registered Loser
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
Posts
8,006
Total Time
.
Wow. No ones bothered to even comment on this crash. Perhaps this is more news on PPrune.

A 737 essentially has the op to make a soft field landing and ends up breaking in three with several fatalities and many injured, with some serious.

Just thought it's a testament to the difference in the Hudson ditching. AMS is surrounded by flatland farm fields which make it an ideal plot to land on. One would think that given the choice between a river and flatland to put it down, one would choose the latter.
 

Amish RakeFight

Registered Loser
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
Posts
8,006
Total Time
.
More recent article...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/25/plane-crash-amsterdam-turkish-airlines


The Turkish Airlines plane that crashed in Amsterdam would have taken a "pretty severe whack" as it hit the ground but appeared likely to have been at least partly under control when it came down, an expert said today.

Kieran Daly, editor of the online news service Air Transport Intelligence, said the range of possible causes of the accident was so wide that it was impossible to speculate at this stage.
"What you can say is that there's been a reasonably severe impact because it's done a lot of damage to the aircraft," he told the Guardian. "A 737 doesn't break up all that easily. You've got to get a pretty severe whack to do that and you would expect some people to be quite seriously hurt.

"The fact that there wasn't a fire is indicative that you didn't have a grotesquely out of control situation. If a plane falls from the sky then you immediately have catastrophic explosive damage. Here it looks like the aircraft was either partially or wholly under control when it touched down."

Jane's aviation analyst Chris Yates said: "A couple of eyewitnesses suggested that the plane lost power, lost propulsion. If those reports are true it potentially indicates that the engines were starved of fuel or that the plane itself simply ran out of fuel."

This theory could be supported by the fact that medics could be seen treating survivors propped up next to the plane's fuselage, Yates said.

"They wouldn't be that close if there was a small glimmer that there was potential for a fire to break out."

One person posting on the Professional Pilots Rumour Network (PPRuNe) highlighted the fact that fire crews did not appear to be mopping up or putting foam on spilt unignited fuel.

But Gideon Evers, a spokesman for the International Federation of Airline Pilots' Associations, said there was no indication the crash had anything to do with the fuel level.

Regulations require all commercial flights to carry ample reserves, he said. According to mandatory limits, a passenger airliner must carry sufficient fuel to get to its destination, remain in holding patterns for 45 minutes, possibly divert to an alternate airport, hold for another 45 minutes, and then carry out a normal approach.

Other experts said the fact the plane landed in a muddy, plowed field may have helped limit the number of casualties, by absorbing much of the force of the hard impact. It may also have helped avert a fire resulting from ruptured fuel tanks and lines on the underside of the fuselage.

Daly said incidents such as this, and the recent survival of everyone on a US Airways plane that crashed into the Hudson River in New York, demonstrated the improvements in aircraft design and building in the last 15 or 20 years.

The 737-800, which entered service in 1998, is part of Boeing's current family of narrow body planes. Some 2,578 737s are in service around the world, 1,490 of them 737-800s.

The safety record of the aircraft is "outstanding", Daly said.

"The 737-800 is a very modern aircraft. It's extremely well designed and well built and it will be around for a long time to come. If you have a situation where it crashes the prognosis for the passengers is very, very good."

Yates said: "It's a good solid aircraft." Turkish Airlines had a "relatively good" safety record, he added. "They didn't have a particularly good record around a decade ago but they've taken great strides to improve safety since then."
 

shroomwell

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 25, 2003
Posts
280
Total Time
alot
If it is another dual engine failure, talk about black swans.
 

Amish RakeFight

Registered Loser
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
Posts
8,006
Total Time
.
If it is another dual engine failure, talk about black swans.
Re: The Black Swan

I've coincidentally once met Nassim Nicholas Taleb at a B & N as he was being escorted around the store by an employee. As the employee walked past me, I had asked where I might find The Black Swan. To my surprise, he told me that the gentleman he was with was Taleb. We shook hands (I gave him some high praise as well) and he gave me an autographed copy.

Oh yeah...

Not sure if you know this author, but I ran into Malcolm Gladwell a few weeks ago in NYC. His books are really good as is his staff writing for the New Yorker magazine. It was kind of awesome to chat with him as I find his writing very engrossing. Check out some of his books.
 

embpic1

Well-known member
Joined
May 14, 2005
Posts
474
Total Time
>10000
Looks like they are reporting that the both pilots and a someone in the jumpseat were killed. Very sad indeed.
 

clr4theapch

Well-known member
Joined
May 2, 2004
Posts
711
Total Time
tons
Anyone Notice that there was NO evidence " Fire".. first impression asks if the tanks were dry??

I don't think Turkisk airlines uses dispatchers... could have made a difference.. RIP Crew.. and others..
 

dispatchguy

Dad is my favorite title
Joined
Nov 30, 2001
Posts
1,569
Total Time
NIL
Actually they do - met some TK "dispatchers" at an ADF get together in Chicago in 2000
 

embpic1

Well-known member
Joined
May 14, 2005
Posts
474
Total Time
>10000
"The Dutch Safety Board reported, that the three pilots were crushed by a panel, that intruded the cockpit from their back."

Man that sucks to be killed by the CB panel.
 

ualdriver

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2003
Posts
1,400
Total Time
13Kish
Re: The Black Swan

I've coincidentally once met Nassim Nicholas Taleb at a B & N as he was being escorted around the store by an employee. As the employee walked past me, I had asked where I might find The Black Swan. To my surprise, he told me that the gentleman he was with was Taleb. We shook hands (I gave him some high praise as well) and he gave me an autographed copy.
Wow. Taleb and Black Swan references on flightinfo.com. I'm impressed :)
 

Publishers

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 20, 2002
Posts
1,736
Total Time
1500
Today they are saying it was an altimeter problem mis-informing the auto pilot which led to engines being pulled back. Crew realized to late in game that the speed was wrong and too late for recovery.
 

rjcap

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2001
Posts
715
Total Time
zip
The captain was occupying the left hand seat, a fully qualified first officer occupied the right hand seat. For this first officer this was a training flight. Another first officer occupied the observer's seat.

The airplane was performing an ILS approach to runway 18R on autopilot in fairly bad visibility according to standard operating procedures by Turkish Airlines. Mist and low cloud prevailed suggesting, that the crew most likely did not see Polderbaan (runway 18R) while commencing the final descent.

While the airplane was at 1950 feet MSL with the autoflight systems coupled to the ILS already, the left hand radar altimeter produced a wrong height reading of -8 feet. This resulted in the autothrottles to pull the thrust to idle. The landing gear warning horn sounded as a result of the erroneous reading, but was not considered to be a problem according to the cockpit voice recorder. However, this warning should have alerted the crew of a radar altimeter problem.

The stick shaker activated at a height of about 500 feet AGL, at which point full power was applied. This however was already too late to recover the flight and the airplane subsequently impacted ground.

The airplane hit ground with the tail first at a speed of 92 knots (normal landing speed would have been 140 knots) and slid for about 150 meters until coming to a stop. The airplane's tail broke off and the fuselage ruptured at the business class, the landing gear separated according to its design. The engines separated and continued for an additional about 250 meters due to the thrust they developed and the sudden deceleration of the airframe.

The fatalities were mainly along the line of rupture through the business class. The cockpit crew was fatally injured mainly because of the enormeous deceleration forces and the nose wheel, that got partially embedded into the cockpit.

The flight data recorder stores 25 hours of flight data, which covered the last 8 flights of the airplane. During those flights another two failures of the left hand radar altimeter had been recorded.

A Boeing Alert sent to all operators of 737s (all types) said, that no evidence of bird strike, engine or airframe icing, wake turbulence or windshear has been found so far. There was adequate fuel on board throughout the entire flights. Both engines responded normally to throttle inputs, the airplane responded normally to flight control inputs all the time.

The digital flight data recorder indicated, that the autopilot B and autothrottle was being used for an ILS approach to runway 18R. The right hand radar altimeter was providing proper data, while the left hand radar altimeter provided faulty readings of -7 and -8 feet. The autothrottles, using the left hand radar altimeter, transitioned to the flare mode and retarded the throttles to idle thrust. The throttles remained at the idle stop for about 100 seconds, while the airspeed dropped to 40 knots below selected approach speed.

According to Boeing, if one of the radar altimeters provides erroneous height readings (regardless of whether the radar altimeter indicates itsself failed or not - failure flag or not), typical flight deck effects requiring crew intervention would be erratic radar altimeter readings on the instrument displays with differences between the two readings, inability to engage both autopilots in dual mode for the approach mode, unexpected removal of flight director bars, unexpected configuration warnings and a premature autothrottle RETARD announciation on the pilots' primary flight displays.
 

shroomwell

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 25, 2003
Posts
280
Total Time
alot
If all that is true, this is a massive flight crew mistake.
 

embpic1

Well-known member
Joined
May 14, 2005
Posts
474
Total Time
>10000
The throttles remained at the idle stop for about 100 seconds, while the airspeed dropped to 40 knots below selected approach speed.
Holy crap! Were these guys asleep? Even the jumpseater didn't catch it.... Wow. Just wow.
 

embpic1

Well-known member
Joined
May 14, 2005
Posts
474
Total Time
>10000
Who was flyin the f**kin airplane?
I am not saying anything about the Turks, but I have heard many foreign pilots are great at running the automation. The problem is when you take the automation away things can get ugly. I knew a NWA guy that used to go to China to train guys on the 400 in the sim. He said if you turn off the flight director and make them hand fly they had a hell of a time keeping the plane out of the dirt.
 

jimcav

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2002
Posts
350
Total Time
10000
Actually the same can be said about some of the folks I have flown with. Sad but true.
 

vtwo

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 18, 2005
Posts
329
Total Time
+11K
me too

we have had a memo come out about 3 or4 months ago "during day vfr conditions It is recommended to hand fly with no flt director or auto pilot and auto thrust disconnected."
Makes for a busy day as Pilot Monitoring, but fun as well.

some it comes to them with no issues. Other are wondering where they are at. and why, and what is next.
 
Top