Turbine Time

5280high

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hey whats going on guys....quick question...what does it take to get Turbine time. like i have heard alot of guys talk about haveing it and needing it to log as PIC...as far as i know(and corrections are more than welcomed!) but if it doesn't require a type rateing which is a jet or a plane that weighs or 12,500 lbs and you have ur multi u can log it as PIC...so if lets say someone you know has a turbo commander and you get an MEI to check you out...can you build turbine time like that?....thanks for the help....and one more question is a king air C-90 considered to be under 12.5? thanks for the input!
 

bigD

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The problem isn't usually a legal one - it's an insurance one. In your scenario, you can certainly legally log PIC in a twin commander with a multi engine rating, but there's no way any insurance company would let you fly with a mere checkout by an MEI. You'd need loads of time to begin with, and you'd probably be sent to Flight Safety or similar to get a bunch of sim time. It's a big deal.

I think most people get their turbine training and time on someone else's dime. You could do it yourself, but I think you'd have to be independently wealthy! I knew one guy that bought an MU-2 with cash and self insured it to get around the insurance requirements. Pretty risky if you ask me, but I guess he figured it was worth it.
 

bobbysamd

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Turbine time

You've answered your own question if it is a large aircraft (over 12.5K lbs) and/or requires a type. Probably any airplane lighter than that, such as a King Air 90, will be single-pilot only, so you cannot log any SIC time legally. You could log your time as PIC in something like a King Air 90 as long as your sole manipulator of the controls.

I agree with big D, it'll take much more than an MEI checkout. Most people build turbine time through employment. You need some experience before you can get a job flying King Airs. Once you get the job, the employer should take care of the training for you.

By the way, although insurance might demand two pilots in a particular turbine twin, the FARs control the logging of time. E.g., you might be in the right seat flying as the insurance company's SIC, but if it is a single-pilot airplane per the FARs, you're SOL regarding logging the SIC legs.

Hope that helps.
 
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rumpletumbler

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If you have a multi rating you can log PIC in any multi-engine airplane turbine or otherwise up to but not over 12,500 lbs. Sole manipulator of the controls. Agree up front that you will be. I get grief because I have about 70 hours PIC in a Merlin with my low time. It was all agreed upon, sole manipulator etc. You don't have to sit down and be able to draw the electrical system to be sole manipulator of the controls. While good experience it may do you more harm than good in the job market. Many people I've encountered get angry about things like that. They would rather see 70 hours in the right seat of a 152 doing touch and goes. "I see you been paying ur dues sonny boy!" Its twisted but true. There are many 135 operators, 91 operators who fly single pilot in these type situations and would love to have you along as a bag boy, another set of eyes, someone to scare when they make a bad decision, etc. and you might get a dead head leg in the process. Most of the time though this could get expensive unless you work it out so that you are being paid for your time or at least free accomodations, food. I don't bring it up though unless asked about it because it can be taken by some as a non suffering type of flying experience. You can try it and see how it works for you. If a potential employer asks about it looked really whipped and try to tear up and say, "It was horrible!, I learned nothing!, I'm so sorry I did it!" If you can actually be weeping by the last sentence sometimes they will forgive you. Sometimes not.

RT
 

5280high

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i see so legally you can log time in in a turbo prop if it weighs less than 12.5 and you have your multi if its a twin...i think i understand with the whole paying the dues thing...i work for an airport and usally with the money i make i try to fly...and thats how i got my private...i'm going to college right this sem to start on my Int. and Comm....i guess my next question is do you guys think its the right way to go???...thanks for all the help fellas and opioions are MORE than welcome....thanks alot C-ya!
 

buzzer

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Just to make sure things are clear...the 12.5 is max gross certified weight. If the plane's specs hit that number than it would forever be in that category of requiring a type rating, no matter what the airplane weighed on a particular day.
 

bobbysamd

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Paying dues

Yes, Mile High, you got it. It is vital that you get your degree. Get your ratings and your CFI, and start instructing. Build your multi time. Do it the traditional way. Apply for jobs. Above all, be patient. While there are no guarantees in professional aviation, if you take care of business everything else will fall into place.

Good luck with your plans.
 

5280high

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hey thanks alot!!...at the airport were i work at we have a husband and wife who are Captains for a major airline and i ask the husband in his opioion which would you get first multi or CFI and he said for sure go ahead and get the CFI...so i think its cool that guys like him can relay info to us smaller guys to help us out...well i can't think of anymore questions right now but i'm sure i'll have plenty in the future so anywayy happy flying to you guys and i'll see ya
 

Flight Junkie

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Many people I've encountered get angry about things like that. They would rather see 70 hours in the right seat of a 152 doing touch and goes.
If a potential employer asks about it looked really whipped and try to tear up and say, "It was horrible!, I learned nothing!, I'm so sorry I did it!" If you can actually be weeping by the last sentence sometimes they will forgive you. Sometimes not.
rumple.....What are you trying to teach 5280high? How many "potential employers" have you interviewed with? When in an interview, you're there because you meet their requirements, whatever they may be. And how does one attain the time to meet requirements....by flying whatever he can get his hands on. Don't misunderstand that...I'm not condoning breaking FARS to log flight time. If 5280 has the ability and legality to fly something...he should do it. If he truly knows his 'stuff' and fits the profile of the person they want to hire, no interview board will shun him for having "a non suffering type of flying experience". That's your quote, not mine.

5280....Never tell someone, especially during an interview that, "It was horrible!, I learned nothing!, I'm so sorry I did it!" I don't care if you're a capt., FO, or just sitting in the back of a 172 watching what's going on in the front, you can always learn something or see something new. Also, I hope I don't bring you down, but please understand this....don't ever try to pilot an aircraft that will exceed your experience, unless you have a qualified person with you to keep it safe. I'm not "the ace of the base", so please don't think I'm trying to be bigger than my britches. Remember, just because you're rated for an aircraft you've never flown or trained for, doesn't necessarily mean you can fly it safely. Honestly, I hope you get your ratings and get to fly that Twin Commander, just fly it with someone that will teach you correctly. I say put the spurs to the Commander and enjoy the ride and learn as much as you can while you're getting that 'golden' turbine time. Good Luck
 

5280high

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hey thanks for the advice...i think i get what everyone is telling me...the other night i got the chance to fly a 210 into Indy international(IND) it was a freakin blast!! i am very inexperianced when it comes to flight time right now...but the chance i got with the 210 was a highlight in my early career.when we were cleared on 5L there was a DC-9 right beside us on a parrellal Visual for 5R personally i thought that was pretty cool...however if i got the sign off for the complex and HP for the plane i would defantly wait untill i was for sure i could handle the aircraft to go off by myself somewhere. well thanks for all the help and good flying fellas.........C-ya
 

rumpletumbler

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flight junkie,

sar·casm Pronunciation Key (särkzm)
n.
A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.

I believe that 5280 understood my post. It was an attempt to use sarcastic language, intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.

The victim is anyone who is infuriated by someone with low time having turbine time or infuriated by someone with low time who isn't intimidated by said aircraft.

RT
 

Flight Junkie

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Tumbler,
Was that sarcasm? Sounded like someone trying to get in his $.02 and that what it's worth.....$.02. Since I'm relaxing on days off, I thought I'd see what other golden nuggets of advice you've given elsewhere on this board. Can you imagine my disbelief that other's bashed almost all your advice and thoughts. How dare they, eh? I even read one from your wife. Guess she loves your sarcasm. As far as intimidation, I guess I wouldn't hold a candle to your 70 hours from 20 years ago. Anyway, I'd love to sit here all day and argue and have us belittle one another, but I'm sure with the quality of character you display on this board, and the added bonus of your wealth of aviation knowledge.....you're most likely too busy for all that, with tons of offers from airlines and charters. Oh, just saw your profile....nevermind! You didn't take offense to this post did you? After all....it's all just sarcasm.
 

HiAlt

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Rumple..................

You don't know what you're talking about............

...and were you confused and maybe talking to your wife ... the whole weeping thing........?????????
 

Junioriuie

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Actually 5280High, it was a FedEx DC-10 off the right wing not a -9, but who's keepin' track anyway:D
 

Timebuilder

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There is absolutely nothing wrong with legally logging sole-manipulator PIC time under the regs. Many single pilot turboprops have an eager low timer sitting in the left seat, flying a dead leg and being helped along by the guidance and encouragement of an experienced high-time pilot. It's fun, legal, and great experience.

Now the bad news. Some potential employers are very specific about the turbine PIC time they will accept for interview purposes. Often, these folks use FAR Part 1 as the standard for being pilot in command of an aircraft. It's a higher standard than being appropriately rated and sole manipulator. Get it out and read it.

Now, put down the book, go find someone who flys a King Air C 90, and start getting used to turbine flying. I did the same thing with a friend in a Conquest, the Cessna version of a King Air. It has Garrett engines (most of the time) and if you fly one, beg borrow or steal some ANR headsets, as those puppies are NOISY.

You never know, the experience you gather under Part 61 may help you to get a 135 SIC job later, leading up to Part 1 PIC time.

Experience is like a ladder. Take it as you can find it, one rung at a time...
 
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5280high

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DC-9...DC-10..alll the same :D

my mistake hahah but it was still sweet....oh well man just remeber be safe you are only a 500 hr pilot hahah what a pile see ya mane......
 

Rick1128

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Loging time

Just re-read 14CFR91.51 (f) to remind myself what the requirements were. To log SIC time an SIC must be required by aircraft certification or by regulation. According to a couple of legal interetations from FAA Legal, if you meet all the requirements for an air carrier (Pt 135) you can log SIC time if you are assigned to the flight. There is no free ride.

Good luck.
 

rumpletumbler

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It depends on the operation. In my case it was a part 91 operation in an aircraft that required two pilots unless the PIC was type rated for single pilot ops which he wasn't.

RT
 
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