Trouble with getting a student to solo

[flyf15]

Hey guys, Wondering if you have any tips for this situation.

Have a student who got passed to me from another instructor at around 25 hours and I've done about 10-12 hours of dual with him. He's a really smart guy and really dedicated but has some severe problems flying the airplane at certain points...seems to be a lack of ability to multitask or pay attention to more than one thing at once. We've been working on landings a lot and he will usually get one thing perfect (airspeed, decent, configuration, etc) but everything else will not go well at all. The most common thing is totally loosing airspeed or bank control in the pattern and directional control on short final.

Any idea how to help him out? I've tried covering all the instruments, tried working on just one thing at a time, tried being really hard on him when he gets off airspeed and such, and about everything else I can think of.

Thanks much!

 

[minitour]

it may sound stupid...but try having him explain to you what he's doing and why...if he goes step by step explaining it while he's doing it he should get it...maybe have him explain what he's currently doing, what it will accomplish, and what he will do next (to think ahead of the plane).


just an idea

-mini

 

[PHX767]

Try role reversal

To add on to minitour's idea, have him instruct you while you fly a pattern or do a stall series. Sometimes the light bulb will come on while he is telling you what to do.

Also, have him fly with the Chief Pilot (if applicable) or another experienced CFI. Every school has an instructor that is the fireman - that can troubleshoot students and give you some fresh ideas.

And of course, you must face the realization that not everybody can be a pilot.

 

[kclark]

Hey guys, Wondering if you have any tips for this situation.

Have a student who got passed to me from another instructor at around 25 hours and I've done about 10-12 hours of dual with him. He's a really smart guy and really dedicated but has some severe problems flying the airplane at certain points...seems to be a lack of ability to multitask or pay attention to more than one thing at once. We've been working on landings a lot and he will usually get one thing perfect (airspeed, decent, configuration, etc) but everything else will not go well at all. The most common thing is totally loosing airspeed or bank control in the pattern and directional control on short final.

Any idea how to help him out? I've tried covering all the instruments, tried working on just one thing at a time, tried being really hard on him when he gets off airspeed and such, and about everything else I can think of.

Thanks much!

Have him fly with another instructor. See if they can pick up on something.

 

[Goose Egg]

Just my thoughts, but he's probably afraid of something. And NOTHING inhibits learning and performance like fear. I would try to find out what is causing him to have fear and address that--it sounds like he's afraid of landing to me.

Obviously, the guy just needs to relax and he'll do just fine. But accomplishing that is probably much easier said than done. This stuff can be deep-seated. But the guy isn't hopeless. I just think that you should have some deep and searching conversations with your student to discover the source of his anxiety.

I remember fear when working on my ratings. I did my CFI with this crusty old ex-military type who liked to yell. I was petrified of him and I dreaded every flight. Fortunately, I was able to work through things, mainly because I just wanted to get it overwith.

Anyway, students definitely needs to have their minds right before he will be able to perform.

 

[pilotmyf]

Cover the Instruments, except airspeed

I've found that when students have bank and pitch problems, their eyes are in the cockpit on the instruments. When I cover them up, they must fly the airplane w/ visual references, thus attitude flying. Students, especially in an IFR trainer, think they need to monitor the instruments constantly. I have had more ease in soloing students in a bare-bones 152, than a 172sp/r model (less crap to look at). The 152 is less stable too, so this somewhat confirms my thinking.
Good Luck with him

 

[JRSLim]

IF following the previous suggestion of finding out if he has any fears doesn't help, maybe try getting a little strict with him- no yelling , no insults or intimidation, but tell him if his airspeed gets slow (or way too high) or if he is not lined up on the centerline etc., then you will call 'go around' and he will have to go around -- depending on why he is having issues, it may trigger something in his braini to realise he needs to start performing or he's going to spend a lot of wated time and money. From my experience- it probably wont be very long before things start getting under control. This has worked well for me and my PP instructor - thats where I got my airspeed control from ; ) And a minor bonus is he learns how to go around when things arent right.
The role reversal or inparticular having him talk through what he is doing are good suggestions too.

 

[ThomasR]

2 cents

Hey guys, Wondering if you have any tips for this situation.

Have a student who got passed to me from another instructor at around 25 hours and I've done about 10-12 hours of dual with him. .....................

In the military training is condensed. That is you do class work for four hours and fly for four hours, every day. At certain points people reach a plateau of learning. Information becomes redundant and your brain tends to migrate to established behavior pattern. Military IP's recognize the signs and either get rough to shake the cob webs out or resort to letting the student do some fun stuff to break up the routine.

The fun stuff relaxes the student, allows them to explore their abilities without criticism and introduces new patterns of behavior to get the brain back in learning mode. The rough act introduces adrenaline into the system to activate his awareness. It is usually short term and most effective when one isolated behavior is a problem.

If this guy is flying only once a week he might be having a problem with memory drift. He is not flying enough to establish mind/body coordination. His body has to relearn what his brain already knows. Lots of repetition is usually the solution to get the body to react at a base level rather than thinking about it. I loved flying simulators so much I thought about living in one.

One last thing........ students are confined; if you use a rough act to stimulate learning it can easily become overwelming. That is the student has no escape if they feel threatened. The result is a mental shut down where learning pretty much stops and the only interest is to get out.

 

[minitour]

The 152 is less stable too

aint that the truth

 

[rubberducky]

IF following the previous suggestion of finding out if he has any fears doesn't help, maybe try getting a little strict with him- no yelling , no insults or intimidation .

I agree with this.

then you will call 'go around' and he will have to go around --.

While I understand your intention here, you have to be careful with a student. What I mean is that a student or pilot for that matter should never view a go-around as a "threatening event".

...realise he needs to start performing or he's going to spend a lot of wated time and money.

This is what I mean as a threatening event. Students need to know that anything that happens in the plane is first a learning event. Too many instructors/students use the money thing over people. Don't jump on me because I don't have a money tree out back of my house.

And a minor bonus is he learns how to go around when things arent right.

This is the right attitude to instill in students. I don't mean to jump on you Slim, but just remember insinuation is as bad as your wording can be.


Here's my .02. Wherever your student is messing up, let’s say banking, try the reverse part task integrated method. It’s a military technique that I find works well. Basically you fly to demonstrate the pattern Up To the point where your student is screwing up. This allows the student to observe you and learn (express to him what you're concentrating on in the pattern) and also allows them to concentrate on the part they are messing up. Two pieces of caution;


1. Brief them that you will do this, not "ok your controls", rather, "I've noticed that you're having trouble with airspeed on final, I'll fly the pattern till before just before the base leg...” When they get better at airspeed control in the turn, hand it off to them a little hot or a shy bit slow or overbanked and see if they pick up on it or correct it.


2. Don't let them use you as a "crutch" and have you fly when they want you to.


Good Luck