Triple 7 Drivers...

[Fast8945]

Im flying on COL from LAX to IAH on a 777 in a few weeks. Can we still make a visit to the flight deck before the flight. I have been on a 777 when it was on the ground and no one was onboard (i was with a continental fa). Thanks for your help.

 

[Boomhauer]

...and just what the heck were you doing on an empty 777 with a Continental F/A?

 

[Fast8945]

LOL- I forgot to add why I was on an empty 777 with a FA.

I was doing a program through my high school many years ago where I was shadowing a FA for a day. It was one of those career days.

I ended up on the front of a school district magazine for it as well.

 

[ultrarunner]

I ended up on the front of a school district magazine for it as well.

You should have ended up with the FA on top you!

To heck with the mag cover! hehe

 

[JHook]

The closest I have ever come to death was on a 777. I don't think I could bring myself to get on another one. When one of the standby pilots was visibly getting nervous, I figured we were screwed. Of course, all of the screaming from the other passengers sort of clouded my ability to rationally think about the outcome of the flight.

 

[mainah]

To answer the original question, depends on the flight crew. In recent weeks I've seen some crews allow access while others have turned away people. Just depends. I remember, pre 911, two of my friends going onto the plane with the flight crew of a 777 and the captain had them program the FMS for them. Obviously can't do that anymore, but just check with the crew.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Do tell.

The closest I have ever come to death was on a 777. I don't think I could bring myself to get on another one. When one of the standby pilots was visibly getting nervous, I figured we were screwed. Of course, all of the screaming from the other passengers sort of clouded my ability to rationally think about the outcome of the flight.

Okay, now you have to tell us about it!

 

[ShawnC]

Re: Do tell.

Okay, now you have to tell us about it!

It's like those teasers, he gets us hooked and coming back to check on his answer. I for one am boycotting this thread until he answers.

 

[JHook]

To make a long story short, it was a CRAF flight to the middle east. Being CRAF, the cockpit door never closed the entire time. There we were on approach and the Captain asked us to lower all of the shades on the windows. He flew the approach with all of the external lights off. The problem was that they didn't have the DOD approach books so the base we were going to was not in the Jepps. They did have photo copies of them. Another bad thing was that the database didn't contain any data for the base. They actually had to do some real flying instead of depending on their fancy equipment. That was where it turned ugly. There was an international airport about 12 miles away with a runway parallel to the one we were landing on.

Unfortunately for us, the flight crew was looking at the wrong approach. They had the one out for the international airport and not the base. They were visual with the field and got really screwed up when they were lined up with it but the ILS data was way off. I don't know much about the 777, but my guess is that when you start descending close to the ground and the ILS is at full scale, b!tchin' betty gives a "pull up" command. The first time that happened, he added a little power. It didn't seem too bad yet. Keep in mind that those of us sitting in the first few rows could hear the GPWS. The second time, he added more power and there was a more abrupt pull up. This time, he went from quite a bit of power back to near idle and pushed the nose over.

The third time, it felt like a go-around to keep from hitting the ground. I didn't know a 777 could pull that many G's. The standby FO looked as if he was getting somewhat nervous and when we went from darn near full power to idle with an abrupt bunt, there were numerous screams coming from the back and the standby FO was turning very white. Shortly after the power was ripped to idle, he pushed it back up, we heard another GPWS warning and he firewalled the throttles and pulled a couple G's, then ripped them to idle and we hit the runway. It was the hardest landing I have ever been through and I have had some pretty bad ones myself. Once we taxied to the ramp and we shut down, the bro of ours that had watched this circus from the jumpseat was kicked out of the cockpit and for the first time in the nearly 24 hours since we had left home, the cockpit door closed.

 

[Jack Schitt]

but my guess is that when you start descending close to the ground and the ILS is at full scale, b!tchin' betty gives a "pull up" command.

If the airport of intended landing is not in the FMS database, the GPWS will think you're trying to hit the ground instead of a runway (hence, pull-up! pull-up!). It seems logical that a military airfield would not be in the FMS database of a commercial airliner. Flying into an unfamiliar field with b!tchin betty screaming at you can cause all kinds of confusion.

 

[altimaklr]

Is it possible to program the lat/long of the destination airport into the 777, like you can with a normal handheld GPS??

 

[Jack Schitt]

I'm sure you can program the lat/long. The problem is that the FMS will recognize it as a waypoint but not an airport. You'll still get the GPWS warning because the FMS doesn't know there's a runway underneath you.

 

[JimNtexas]

If the airport of intended landing is not in the FMS database, the GPWS will think you're trying to hit the ground instead of a runway (hence, pull-up! pull-up!). It seems logical that a military airfield would not be in the FMS database of a commercial airliner. Flying into an unfamiliar field with b!tchin betty screaming at you can cause all kinds of confusion.

Does she continue to panic while you are taxing around, or does she just figure that you've crashed and there is nothing more to say? How about when you start back up, does it blow her mind to be stationary in what to her seems the middle of nowhere?

 

[CesnaCaptn]

Doesn't the airplane know you're landing because the gear and flaps are down? I would think that with those conditions met, the EGPWS, irregardless of the FMS, would not give you warnings.

 

[katanabob]

Couldn't they have inhibited the GPWS warning? Everything with an FMS that I've flown has a provision for this.

 

[JHook]

There has got to be some way to tell the thing that you are landing at an airport. The base we landed at in Europe before the final leg into the middle east wasn't in their database either. I was in the jumpseat for that landing and the only thing Betty did was count down the radar altimeter heights.

 

[flx757]

On aircraft that I have flown with EGPWS (757, 717, etc.), it is simple to inhibit the "Enhanced" portion of the EGPWS for instances just such as this, where the destination airport is not in the database.

 

[blott]

If you have the gear and flaps right, she won't say anything, you can land where-ever you want.

Then again, I've never had to land somewhere where it wasn't in the database. but I don't think the FMS database has anything to do with the EGPWS database-diff computers. Wait a min, I've had a defered FMS and had no problems-other than using vor radials and a sectional...Plus the SF3(SAAB) didn't have an FMS, but it did have a bitchin Betty...

B

 

[Beetle007]

Well guys, Im just a low time pilot (270hrs)...but Im pretty sure that the the FMS database is seperate from the Enhanced GPWS database. Im also percent sure that the terrain clearance floor function of enhanced GPWS will give you an alert anytime you dip down into it. This is regardless of the gear/flap configuration. In fact, that is the entire purpose of the Terrain Clearance Floor function of EGPWS. But you can always turn off the EGPWS for airports not in the database and still have a fully functional GPWS for the traditional functions. Im not trying to state the obvious (because I know you high time pilots already know this stuff), but no one has mentioned it yet.

Cheers,

 

[Jack Schitt]

I think Beetle007 is on to something here. I stand corrected in that the Navigation Database (FMS) is separate from the Terrain Database (EGPWS). However, I think it's pretty safe to assume that if an airport is not part of the navigation database it will also not appear in the terrain database particularly in the case of a military base in a foreign country. Below are a couple of definitions from a Honeywell EGPWS manual:

A Terrain Clearance Floor feature adds an additional element of protection by alerting the pilot of possible premature descent. This is intended for non-precision approaches and is based on the current aircraft position relative to the nearest runway. This feature is enabled with the TAD feature.

In -210-210 and later versions, a Runway Field Clearance Floor feature is included. This is similar to the TCF feature except that RFCF is based on the current aircraft position and height above the destination runway based on Geometric Altitude.

Of course, the 777 may not have any of these features or may have a different system altogether. This is just my best guess as to why you'd get a GPWS warning in the situation described above.