Transition from 121----->135...

[blusideup]

Just wanted to hit up some insight from anyone who has gone from 121 to 135 on-demand/charter flying. Basically looking to see how anyone has dealt with the 'quality of life' changes in terms of schedules(or lack of), duty days, pay, etc.
I just landed a job flying 135 and would like to know what to expect now that the 'cush' 121 schedule is gone.
Any info/insight/experiences would be appreciated....Thanks!

 

[Rick1128]

I have done that transition before, though the 121 gig was not 'cush'. Some of the 135 jobs were a lot more 'cush'. But the biggest thing is to sit back and ENJOY. It can be fun if you are with the right company. The biggest thing with most 121 ops is that as pilots we are separate from the passengers. We don't deal with them. In 135 you generally deal with the passenger. And some of them can be A**holes. Most are average. But some can be a blast. Had a major model last week. And when she got off, she clean up her mess and gave the F/O and me a kiss and hug. I have had good tips and poor or no tips. Depending on the operator you work for and yourself, you could have a lot of fun with this.

Enjoy.

 

[blusideup]

One more thing-

Are salaries and pay rates negotiable with 135 operators? I'm sure some are set but has anyone heard of negotiating pay?

Thanks again...

 

[FlyingSig]

I think you're in for an eye opener....

FAR 135 says you only need 13 scheduled days off per quarter (yes, quarter, not month). Unless your company has a set policy, you will be on duty 24 hours/day minus those 13 days. As for work duty days... long. Very long. FAR 135 says you need 10 hours rest in the last 24. Average passenger charter stuff has you dropping people off early, hanging out all day, and getting home where you're pushing the 14 hours.

Keep your cell phone charged.... it's ultimate reserve (I'm sure it varies company to company, but where I'm at it's a 90 minute call out).

Pay is always negotiable as there is no collective bargening... The trick is getting them to agree to the highest amount that doesn't price you out of the job.

PM me if you have any questions....

 

[rettofly]

FAR 135 says you only need 13 scheduled days off per quarter (yes, quarter, not month). [/B]

Thirteen days per quarter can be one day per week or 13 consecutive days (as in vacation), or any combination.
Been there, done that, but the company I worked for had a policy of "volunteers only" on weekends. Not a bad gig, but they closed the base 18 months after I moved on my own nickel as a new hire captain.

 

[English]

There are alot of 135 operators who choose to disregard the regs. 13 days off a quarter? Some companies interpret that as if you are on reserve, but not called out, then that was your day off. Seriously. So you'd be on call every day of your life, 24 hours a day. It could work out nicely if you aren't called everyday, but forget having a life where you could plan on leaving your little prison (the one hour drive surrounding your base airport). Want to go to the beach for the day? Sorry, no, you can never go to the beach again because it's not within one hour of the airport. Want to go to the movies? Keep your cell phone on. Want to have a beer with dinner? Never again, you are always on call!!!!

Why do you think the term "hard day off" was coined in the charter world? Because many operators decide to disregard regulations to make a buck. By keeping the organization understaffed, they have a chance at making more money.

The term "quality of life" was NOT coined in the charter world....

 

[cherokee]

Not true. I work for a 135 company and have at least 10 hard days off per month plus 2 weeks vacation. It all depends on the company you work for.

 

[LJDRVR]

bluesideup,

You'll discover there is as much variety in pay and working conditions among various 135 operators as there are among different 121 airlines.

I can't speak to your concerns as I have never flown part 121, but I can talk a little bit about what you'll expect.

The pilot/dispatch relationship of shared responsibility is gone. The dispatchers you'll be working with now (for the most part) think that second segment climb is what you'll be doing after takeoff on the second leg of the trip. As a result, its pretty much your show out there. Comlicating this will be the culture the operator has in regards to their expectations. ("what do you mean it's illegal? the OTHER crew did it!) Hopefully you will ply your trade at an airline where they understand the importance of safety and following the rules. Also complicating this and other issues is......THE CAPTAIN.

Much like the 121 world you're going to to encounter the whole gamut here. From guys or gals that should have been astronauts and are amazing to work with, to insecure, untalented hacks, whose demeanor sucks all joy and life out of the cockpit. What you'll notice here more than anything is that 135 cockpits (with some notable exceptions) will be less standardized than their 121 counterparts. This makes the latter category of Captain mentioned above much more challenging for you as an FO to deal with. Protect your certificate.

Chances are however, the 135 operator you'll be working for will have a somewhat descent schedule, and the pilots you'll fly with will be average folks. That having been said, the biggest challenge or difference you'll see is that as a 135 on-demand pilot, you wear ALL the hats: Pilot, Dispatcher, Bagage Handler, Flight Attendant, Concierge, Babysitter (pets, kids or other pilot) SOC, Limousine Driver, (when your PAX transportation fails to show) and others. Your days of putting your headset in the bag and walking up the jetway through the terminal to a waiting shuttle are over. Approach these differences with an attitude of: "Cool! something different" and you'll have fun. I spent the other day BS'ing with the CEO of one of the most succesful companies in the U.S. (he served US in the cockpit!) I've had to contend with the SOP dilema of PF/PNF responsibilities concerning topless dancers in the cockpit attempting to show us their um...goods. (My wife actually thought it was funny)

The bottom line is this. Getting paid to fly airplanes is great. Enjoy the new experinces associated with 135 flying. It's all a question of tradeoffs. For instance, I have an 8/4 schedule that's pretty good considering I don't fly every day I'm on. I had 24 overnights in 2002 (not including recurrent) which keeps me at home with the family after almost every flight. The tadeoff? the occassional 0200 to Guatemala City or a two-day tip to nowheresville where th hotel TV is broken.

Enjoy your new job. It will broaden your horizons and perspective.

Best of luck!