Transfer of controls after landing

[Typhoon1244]

This question is for those of you in two-man flightcrews where only the captain has full control of the aircraft during taxi.

If your first officer is making the landing, depending on your technique, there is an instant while you transfer the controls during the rollout that either both of you are driving, or neither of you is driving. I recently heard an IP harping at a new captain about this issue, and I'm interested to hear you particular technique(s).

 

[Sniper@YourFeet]

Do the usual call-outs:
CA: "I have 'em"
FO: "you have 'em"
CA: "I have 'em"

Don't start that sequence till you have your left hand on the tiller, your feet following the FO on the pedals, and your right hand on the throttles (unless heavy X-wind necessitates aileron corrections, which I usually brief that I want the FO to maintain until I say otherwise)

If I'm flying with a new FO, I test him/her in the air at cruise by not taking the controls when I call "I have 'em" (the first time) to see if he/she just gives 'em to me w/o visually verifying I really do have the controls. Better to find out in the air than on roll-out.

What did the IP have to say about the situation?

 

[dsee8driver]

At ATI the guy with the Burger King stripe (Captain) says "I got the airplane" usually between 80-100 knots on rollout. Some wait until the plane has practically stopped but for the most part they like to do the breaking. Brakes are an issue on the 8 since the cooling really sucks.

 

[GCD]

Brakes are issues on all Douglas built airplanes.

In the B-747, there is no transfer of control on rollout. The PF taxis from block to block. Steering tiller on each side.

I think 100 - 80 knots is a bit high for transfering controls. Most airlines have a policy of a safe taxi speed before transfering controls on landing. However, RTO's are different.

 

[Caveman]

I include this in my crew brief:

"When it's your leg and on the landing roll at about 70 knots you'll hear me call out 'I'm up on the brakes'. It's still your airplane and will remain your airplane until you verbally transfer the controls. You can transfer at that point or any point after that."

At that time I also put my left hand on the tiller but I don't use it until control has been transferred. My IOE Captain during upgrade suggested that it be done this way and it seems to work well for me.

I've noticed that most FO's are pretty anxious to turn loose of the airplane. Hardly any of them will attempt to exit the runway. Most seem to want to turn over the controls as soon as possible. It would drive me nuts when as an FO the Captain would holler "My controls" as soon as the reversers were stowed.

 

[GCD]

Caveman,

You're a good man for giving that briefing. At least the FO isn't spring loaded to let loose of the airplane on ground contact, and no one is flying the airplane. I suggest that you insist that the FO keep the controls until a safe taxi speed, unless a condition requires your control.

One reason I suggest this is because the rollout is still part of flying the airplane. How is the FO ever going to completely learn how to fly the airplane when it's time to upgrade? Another reason is from a safety perspective, in that transfer of control at a lower speed is less likely to create a lawn dart out of an airplane.

As a captain, it really is your job to prepare FOs' for future upgrade. I hate to hear about captains saying that it isn't their job to teach anyone. When you hear a captain say that, he or she is usually a slug and not sure of his or her own abilities.

I have an article published about landing and rollout. If you are interested in reading it, send me a PM with your email address.

 

[TurboS7]

I take the airplane when the FO give it to me. Some try to give it to me at 80 kts, I just smile and say "you started it finish it." I have no problem with them taking it off the high speed as long as everything is status quo. How is a guy suppose to learn if he gives up the ship at 80kts, crazy.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

is there a reason for handing controls over while on the runway, having just landed, as opposed to when parked at the gate or at least taxiing slowly on a taxiway?

 

[Stifler's Mom]

is there a reason for handing controls over while on the runway, having just landed, as opposed to when parked at the gate or at least taxiing slowly on a taxiway?

The ATR for instance doesn't have any nose wheel stearing with the rudder pedals other than differential braking/power and what the rudder can do for you.

Some Capts. I have flown with have me take it off the high speed, while others will take it at @70 knots.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

so it's assumed the cap'n is more profficient then FO in taxiing with differential braking and power? or vice versa?

also, are tillers dual, or just on the cap'n side?

and lastly, why not let the flying pilot sit in the seat that offers the most controllability? (with single tiller aircraft, etc.)

 

[AceCrackshot]

As a career regional FO, my technique on the ERJ is usually look for the Captain's hand coming up for the tiller...usually they will call "my airplane" or if they don't, I'll make for the high speed at less than 60 knots and decelerating, or just bring it to a gentle stop straight ahead if he doesn't say anything...

To answer your questions, Vlad (this is from my 121 experience, your results may vary)

1) Taxiing is usually considered the captain's duty. In aircraft with a tiller it is usually somewhat difficult or hard on the tires to make a 90 degree turn by braking and diff power. Turboprops are usually somewhat easier...Even the Dash's with its notoriously touchy brakes could be taxied, just not a smoothly.

2) Tillers are usually only installed on the Capt's side, however the Airbus has dual tillers, as memory serves.

3) 121 Operators don't seat swap for legs, even if both pilots are typed.

 

[Caveman]

GCD,

Good tip. Thanks.

Caveman

 

[328dude]

Huh? AM I supposed to take over control after we clear? Wow, I always just let the FO's taxi and help out with the tiller if they need it on thier leg.

Interesting.

 

[spanky2]

I am / was a FO. I made it part of the approach briefing...which turn off I expected, was there a high speed, and would ask the CA when he wanted control and how he would handle it. If there was a high speed I would take it he OK'd it. If no high speed, he would take it on the rwy after a very positive exchange of controls and low speed. Sometimes it varied from CA to CA but most were about the same.

In the F-16, I have to brief myself...but never argue with myself.

 

[chperplt]

In the F-16, I have to brief myself...but never argue with myself

You never argued with yourself?? Not even once??

 

[j41driver]

Is the CRJ's nose wheel steering available to the FO through the rudder pedals?

 

[Stifler's Mom]

so it's assumed the cap'n is more profficient then FO in taxiing with differential braking and power? or vice versa?

also, are tillers dual, or just on the cap'n side?

and lastly, why not let the flying pilot sit in the seat that offers the most controllability? (with single tiller aircraft, etc.)

No, in the ATR the Capt. has a tiller, not the F/O...and no direct control over the nose wheel with the rudder pedals.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Is the CRJ's nose wheel steering available to the FO through the rudder pedals?

Yes, but only through a very narrow range. (Seven degrees? Or is that the Brasilia?)

The IP I mentioned in my original post was upset about the captain applying any braking at all while the F/O still had the controls...but I think it's inevitable that both pilots are on the brakes for an instant or two.

Shortly after the "eighty knots" call, I do my best to mimic exactly what the F/O is doing, matching his/her brake "pressure" as much as possible, then call "my controls." It's worked well so far.

 

[Typhoon1244]

So it's assumed the cap'n is more profficient then FO in taxiing with differential braking and power?

Yes, it's assumed. But more importantly...

...are tillers dual, or just on the cap'n side?

...on most jets, only the captain has a tiller. (I didn't know the 747's F/O had one also. If so, it's the only airplane I've ever heard of with a setup like that!)

...why not let the flying pilot sit in the seat that offers the most controllability?

Because in most airliners, once you're above forty or sixty knots, there's no difference between the two sides of the cockpit with respect to controllability.

 

[dsee8driver]

Yes, it's assumed. But more importantly......on most jets, only the captain has a tiller. (I didn't know the 747's F/O had one also. If so, it's the only airplane I've ever heard of with a setup like that!)

Hey Typhoon

The PlasticBus has dual tillers(At least the A300). I have jumped on a few and have seen the FO do the taxiing.

 

[Typhoon1244]

The PlasticBus has dual tillers(At least the A300). I have jumped on a few and have seen the FO do the taxiing.

Guess I haven't gotten around enough...I sure didn't know that!

 

[GCD]

Yes, the B-747 has a steering tiller on both sides. Also, this is an option for several other airplnes.

Thanks for the several enquires about my article. I can never be a slug(t) and tell you to purchase the magazine. I am a professional, and share my information with other professionals. Therefore, I will send each request a copy of any of my articles requested.

I am on a long trip, at this time, and will not return to the US until 3 Dec. If you don't get a reply from me by 15 Dec, send me a reminder email, as my email file sometimes dumps.

Happy Thaksgiving from Kuwait.
Oh, BTW. When I return to the US, I will be sending in a check to keep this forum running. I hope everyone else does, as well.

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

Not to be anal or anything but I like to use the phraseology, "I have the flight controls", "You have the flight controls," per our SOP instead of I have "the airplane", or you have "it". I realized back when I was a flight instructor that the phrase, "I have it" or "I have the airplane" was cause for confusion because the other pilot may have thought I had the flight controls when in reality I had the traffic we were both looking for and now no one was flying the airplane. So I like the words "flight controls" for transfering control and I have the "traffic" telling the other pilot that I have the traffic. At SkyWest we transfer controls at 40 knots in the EMB and at 60 knots in the CRJ.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Not to be anal or anything but I like to use the phraseology, "I have the flight controls", "You have the flight controls," per our SOP instead of I have "the airplane", or you have "it."

You're right, our training department says the same thing. On the other hand they also say you should never say "please" in the cockpit because it dilutes the "command tone."

"Descent and approach check, pl...er, I mean, godammit, descent and approach check, you simple peon!"

 

[Ty Webb]

Oh, please!.

Anyone that thinks using common courtesy would dilute their command is probably a real joy to fly with.

 

[Freight Dog]

Most captains I've flown with have FO's bring it down to taxi speed before transferring controls to the captain for taxi. That was how I did it as a captain.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

cant say "please" in the cockpit??

jeeeesus....

I always find polite people pleasent to fly with - as a matter of fact I think they show more control, command, and confidence in thier skills than some uptight prik.

 

[chperplt]

During captain IOE, I was yelled at over and over again for saying please and thank you.

F@ck the IOE captain... Being polite is a good thing

 

[saabcaptain]

At ASA you can't say *please*?

*pul-lease*...

PS: I am a IOE check airman and on the CVR tape of a "problem" of mine you can hear me saying "Engine Failure checklist, please" ... but I hardly thought my FO thought the "please" meant anything but *NOW.* It certainly does not harm command authority unless your a weeny.

 

[typhoonpilot]

Add a couple more with F.O. tillers, the 777 and some Fokker 28s.

I strongly believe the F.O. should keep control of the aircraft until down to taxi speed and about to turn off the runway for the same reasons that GCD expressed. As a captain in the past that is what I would do, even let the F.O. taxi on long straightaways as well so they can get used to braking while taxiing. It easy enough to steer with rudder pedals in that situation. The brakes on the Bandit were real touchy and is was nice to get some practice on them before going to an upgrade.

What I really hated as an F.O. was a captain that wanted control of the aircraft before I slowed to taxi speed. Especially the morons who would take control and then slam on the brakes to make a tight turn-off.

At my present company the F.O. taxis after the takeoff review is completed prior to takeoff and keeps the airplane all the way until turning onto the stand. The reason we ( first officers ) can't always park it is that some parking stop systems only work for the guy in the left seat.

Typhoonpilot