Trans States vs. G0Jets Hipocracy

[Angus]

Finally an intelligent response..

Angus,

I can only answer your questions with a question. What do the AA pilots gain or hope to gain from having scope language that prohibits code share partners from flying 70 seat aircraft, even if it is flown for a different code share? I don't understand the logic in that language.

Please explain.

I appreciate your reply Jason Kagan. My response to your question is this:

It is irrelevant to another Pilot Group what the reason for a particular Pilot Groups scope clause in their CBA. The fact is... it exists for their benefit and to turn a blind eye to that fact changes nothing.

With that said..... my main point to the Pilots at Trans States is this:

Stop your big bad toughguy talk and antics towards other Pilots that are doing the SAME thing that your are doing and are willing to do. It happens and you are NO different and you can only imagine if the all the Pilot groups started acting personally towards you like you have been acting.

 

[WhiteCloud]

With that said..... my main point to the Pilots at Trans States is this:

Stop your big bad toughguy talk and antics towards other Pilots

This is the part I agree with. Hulas doesn't care about the talk and enjoys the pilot vs. pilot antics that he orchestrates. Anything less than hitting Hulas in the wallet is pi$$ing in the wind. I'm ex TSA and know they laugh about this kind of stuff in their meetings and spend time figuring out how to stick it to the unions in seemingly trivial ways. It's a daily battle at TSA. Fight the real enemy.

 

[cocknbull]

EagleRJ

Wow, an Eagle pilot complaining about stealing passengers. What happened to all the FOKKER 100s. What happened to all of the TWA pilots and 717s. Thats right American and American Eagle. The little flying that we TWA and TWE pilots do is pathetic. STL is our turf not yours. We are not owned by Eagle and we our not bypassing your seniority list.

737 Pylt

Do you fly the thunder guppy out of ATL?

 

[TWA Dude]

After American's ill-advised purchase of ailing TWA was announced, pilots at Eagle were excited about the associated growth of American's feed, ...

That's an interesting persepective. Why in the world would AA's feed grow as a result of the purchase? If I may presume, you were looking forward not to growth but to the transfer of the flying done by CHQ, TSA, and Corpex to Eagle. Your gain and their loss. Now don't get me wrong, I know it's just business and you felt your CBA entitled you to it, but now you sound like the TSA pilot whom you criticize.

My biggest beef: pilots blaming other pilots for management's decisions. To Angus: no Regional/Commuters/Small Jet operators take any flying from Mainline; it's given to them by Mainline management. Why do mainline pilots allow it? Because we're essentially powerless to stop companies we don't run. Let's all try to keep our eyes on the Big Picture and not mindlessly bash other pilots.

 

[Crossky]

My biggest beef: pilots blaming other pilots for management's decisions. To Angus: no Regional/Commuters/Small Jet operators take any flying from Mainline; it's given to them by Mainline management. Why do mainline pilots allow it? Because we're essentially powerless to stop companies we don't run. Let's all try to keep our eyes on the Big Picture and not mindlessly bash other pilots.

Amen TWA Dude. TSA didn't take Eagle's flying, it was given to them by AMR. Just like the flying we've been doing as UAX was given to Mesa, TSA, Taco, and SkyWest, and whoever else. What did you expect AMR to do, disband TSA or staple or integrate them? Modern management pits one against the other, it's unfortunate but happens.

At least give Chataqua (can't spell it) thumbs up for playing by the rules, paying APA the fines until the UAX a/c which violate their scope are on another certificate, and still working from a single seniority list. TSA could operate TSA and G* Jets this way, but good luck.

 

[EagleRJ]

EagleRJ

What happened to all the FOKKER 100s. What happened to all of the TWA pilots and 717s. Thats right American and American Eagle.

The Fokkers were phased out by the company because they were orphan airframes that broke all the time.

Trust me, every Eagle pilot is intimately familiar with the TWA pilots. Many of them are at Eagle right now in our highest-paid seats, drawing pay based on their TWA seniority! The TWA deal went through many years after the Flowthrough/Flowback agreement was signed, so they weren't entitled to participate in it, but they came anyway.

It shouldn't need repeating, but TWA was a purchase, not a merger! I'm happy for the pilots that it worked out as well for them as it did, but pilots at Eagle have paid a heavy price.
Back to the topic- again, I don't see a direct comparison between the TSA pilots and the G*jets pilots, but pilots at TSA need to watch the volume of their protests considering the effects of their own flying. An alter-ego is an alter-ego, no matter how it came about.

Do you fly the thunder guppy out of ATL?

What's a thunder guppy?

 

[TWA Dude]

It shouldn't need repeating, but TWA was a purchase, not a merger!

It was both. The assets of TWA were purchased then merged into AA. FYI, an interesting yet pointless debate now rages about AWA and USA, as in who bought who. The answer is neither but don't tell that to the unions!

 

["GO AROUND"]

Angus,

Didn't know that AA pilots owned AMR or the flying that AA does. What a joke. You don't decide anything about AA flying except on your particular flight. No pilot decides who does what flying and it's laughable that you think you do. Pilots fly what managment tells them to or what they have negotiated in their CBA and how's that been workin for ya?

Fact is it's cheaper for managments to violate CBA's and do what they want and wory about the grievances later. Still havn't heard too much from APA about all this. Any grievance been filed?

Oh yeah, hows that Wright Ammendment thing going? Doesn't look to good for you guys. Better start to squirrell those nuts away for the coming losses that SWA is going cause to AA. Talk about losses, at least delta's is oil prices and not the most profitable airline in history being let out of the hand cuffs imposed on them for the last 26 years. Have fun dealing with that ya old fart.

 

[737 Pylt]

LOL! Here you are with NOTHING to add to this topic..... but you have to come here and be big "Mr. Delta" to impress the regional guys.

First of all sport, I have forgotten more than you'll ever learn. And I don't try to impress anyone, I leave that to you!

Heres some news for you "Mrs List every airplane and type rating I have 737pileofit"....... your bankrupt carrier has become nonrelevant just as your comments on this thread. I guess this is what is creating the inferiority complex to come over on this thread and try and slam me.

What has the state of my airline have to do with the thread. I got news for you jr., you speak out of both sides of your nut drainer....come back with something a little bit bigger.

You're out of your mind as well as league if you think your tough guy talk intimidates or even irritates me. LOL! I just look at your profile, and that is ALL the satisfaction I need to laugh you off.....little boy. You still in the right seat? Ouch... that paycut your about to get is REALLY gonna sting. Back to dialup for you Spanky.....LOL!

Man sport, is that all you got. The right seat pay is what I use to pay my gardner, you know him, his name is mr. anus, you call him dad! BTW your mom did a lousy job cleaning our gesthouse toilet. Next time, I'm docking her pay!

Speaking of junior.... shouldn't you be checking for open time?

LOL!! Now run along and let the adults talk....... maybe you can add a complete list of EVERY airplane you've flown to your profile..... we'd ALL be soooo impressed....LOL!!

HEY A$$HOLE, last time I checked, this was an aviation board. Too bad, much like a neutered dog, you don't get it. As far as adults talking, you wouldn't know. Spending time at Chuck E Cheeses looking for your next date is not playing adult.
Move on kid, there's nothing for you here!
737

 

[Angus]

We have a love connection....

First of all sport, I have forgotten more than you'll ever learn. And I don't try to impress anyone, I leave that to you!

What has the state of my airline have to do with the thread. I got news for you jr., you speak out of both sides of your nut drainer....come back with something a little bit bigger.

Man sport, is that all you got. The right seat pay is what I use to pay my gardner, you know him, his name is mr. anus, you call him dad! BTW your mom did a lousy job cleaning our gesthouse toilet. Next time, I'm docking her pay!

HEY A$$HOLE, last time I checked, this was an aviation board. Too bad, much like a neutered dog, you don't get it. As far as adults talking, you wouldn't know. Spending time at Chuck E Cheeses looking for your next date is not playing adult.
Move on kid, there's nothing for you here!
737

Sooo... what are you really saying? I think we both know what is happening here. I can feel the chemistry. I think deep down.... we really love each other. There I said it.... I LOVE you man. I really really love you.

How about us finally getting together for some quality time together. You can sit and tell me stories about ALL the type ratings you have and all the airplanes you fly....wow.... the lists is so impressive! You actually flew the B-727..... wow.... I'm breathless!

You can show me all the pictures you have on the walls and on the tables in your house of all the airplanes you've flown. You probably have pictures doing preflights, and in the cockpit sitting in the seat.... maybe even pretending to flip switches. OOOOhhhh... that is soooo hot.

How about it big boy....??

 

[I.P. Freley]

Good to see Anus is still up to his old tricks. Slam everyone else, call them immature (because he's SUCH the adult!), insinuating that he's the pinnacle of aviation greatness. And of course, you're correct, 737 pylt is trying to impress YOU by listing five whole airplanes in his profile (can you IMAGINE!?!?!). Funny how you attempt to shame someone earlier for pointing out your spelling mistakes, yet you later attempt to shame for 737 pylt listing FOUR (!!!) airplanes in his "ratings" section!

Man, it's just like old times! Make childish arguments, then attack those who respond and call THEM immature. CLASSIC. At least "the usual" still applies when it comes to you... Everyone knows you're a douche, yet you can't recognize it... And I presume we'll get to hear about how you're above calling names, and my mentioning the obvious (that you're a douche) is proof of how I have no point that can't be supported by personal attacks. I DO know you well, don't I?

I missed you, sweetie. Go ahead and tell me now how I'm 737's lover for defending him, since you're the adult around here (and your suggesting that he's gay is totally different from calling you a douche). I'm waiting. I'm also waiting for another HYSTERICAL comment about my screen name, since that's about the peak of your abilities when comes to arguments.

Back to the mirror with you, boy, so your signature makes sense.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Whoops, sorry 'bout the typo, of course I meant to say "ANGUS" in the fourth word of the above post. My apologies.

 

[geojet707]

Hey Angus, were you this fired up when your TWA brothers were stapled on the bottom of the AA seniority list??

 

[737 Pylt]

EagleRJ


737 Pylt

Do you fly the thunder guppy out of ATL?

800 out of nyc.
737

 

[737 Pylt]

Sooo... what are you really saying? I think we both know what is happening here. I can feel the chemistry. I think deep down.... we really love each other. There I said it.... I LOVE you man. I really really love you.

Did your parents have any children that lived??

How about us finally getting together for some quality time together. You can sit and tell me stories about ALL the type ratings you have and all the airplanes you fly....wow.... the lists is so impressive! You actually flew the B-727..... wow.... I'm breathless!

That's because you used it all on your inflatable date!

You can show me all the pictures you have on the walls and on the tables in your house of all the airplanes you've flown. You probably have pictures doing preflights, and in the cockpit sitting in the seat.... maybe even pretending to flip switches. OOOOhhhh... that is soooo hot.

How about it big boy....??

I'll tell you what anus. You tell me when and where, and we can talk about your problem, ok son?? You are pretty pathetic, and proving more and more that you are probably not even of age to drive a car.
737

 

[arthompson]

While I would agree that the aircraft were and possibly are still owned by your company, I would disagree that we were or are flying your passengers.



If you don't think those passengers belong to the Eagle pilot then you don't get it. TSA is flying AMR owned aircraft, on AMR routes in violation of a CBA that AMR has with an AMR subsiderary company. It doesn't matter that Eagle never flew from STL, what does matter is that American bought TWA, so the flying in STL now belongs to American. Most of the AA guys I know have no issue when Eagle gets a route because it's AMR pilots doing AMR flying. Most people don't even have an issue with TSA/CHQ, the issue is that TSA is using AMR owned aircraft to fly AMR routes in violation of the CBA. AMR has allready told Eagle pilots (at least this is my understanding and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) that TSA's pay scale is more in line with what should be paid for the ERJ, so who is being used as a whipsaw against who? Is it ok that an Eagle pilot loose his QOL as long as a TSA pilot benifits and the company not use that money to operate GJ for United?

 

[arthompson]

It doesn't matter if you call the end of TWA a Purchase or a merger, the Alleghany-Mohawk labor provisions are still the law of the land and were not followed in the begining. If former TWA guys are flying at Eagle drawing pay at TWA seniority than good, they would be amoung the few people from TWA that didn't get compleatly screwed in the deal. Everyone here is worried about who is taking whose flying. Where were all of you guys when TWA Dude and his brothers were getting the shaft by thier fellow pilots at American? Did any ALPA represented pilot deny a jumpseat to an AA guy because of what they did to TWA? I doubt it.

 

[HowlinMadMurdoc]

Anyone else get the feeling that "Angus" and the now-retired "Yank McCobb" are the same person?

Kind of like Rhoid with his multiple personalities...

If someone's going to have alter-ego screen names, at least change the writing style.


HMM

 

[FlyinScotsman]

Yank wasn't as childish. At least had an intelligent argument with his biting comment. Angus does not.

 

[say again]

Angus is an idiot!!!:uzi: I love how he slams people, and when they reply (calling him what he is), he gets all defensive and makes a complete jack-off of himself with the laim-a$$ comebacks.:smash: What a jacka$$. Now I can only wait to see what good ol' anus has to say about me. I have a few ideas, he has become pretty predictable!!:beer:

 

[dispatchguy]

My biggest beef: pilots blaming other pilots for management's decisions. To Angus: no Regional/Commuters/Small Jet operators take any flying from Mainline; it's given to them by Mainline management.

Truer words were never spoken! It is your flying when the flights are sold under your airlines 2-letter ATA code, and the ticket stock says "Issued by: Trans States Airlines", "Issued by: Chautauqua Airlines", etc. Even the AX code meant American, just not American Eagle nor American Airlines.

When you do your own flying, under your own airline code, listed as your own flying in the Official Airline Guide (not as a regional partner for a mainline), then its your own flying. When its flying not subject to an Air Services Agreement with a mainline carrier, then its your own flying.

Mainline management could care less about who flies between A and B on any given month, and they'll all rob Peter to pay Paul if any one of them can do it for 1/2 a cent less in CASM.

 

[Angus]

.....

.....

 

[Skippy]

we the pilots of TSA havent done anything? whatever-- we haevnt picketed in stl ord and IAD? we dont have stickers everywhere? we dont have media exposure? we havent set up a website? who the ************************* do u think runs the g0jetpilots.com website you idiot, an interested third party? National?
what planet are you living on?

oh yeah and to the whole refuse the jumpseat argument going to see his kids?

First of all i dont care if his kid, wife, or parents are in the hospital dying i wouldnt let him jumpseat-- i have been vocal about that for as long as i can remember-- and yet no G0jet pilot wishes to attempt when i fly-- i fly the 2nd most at TSA and yet welcome and g0jet jumpseat confrontation not that youd get past the gate agent.

Maybe when the g0jet guy tells the person in the hospital why he cant come to see them right away he'll get the point and the bedridden person will realize what a coksucker you really are.

how's the ontime percentage? how's the crew staffing going? how are the schedules going? how is crew attrition going? how are all the job fairs going?
it's going that way for a reason.
tool
SKIPPY

 

[Angus]

This idiot is a PRIME example...

Agnes and carbon,

we the pilots of TSA havent done anything? whatever-- we haevnt picketed in stl ord and IAD? we dont have stickers everywhere? we dont have media exposure? we havent set up a website? who the ************************* do u think runs the g0jetpilots.com website you idiot, an interested third party? National?
what planet are you living on?

oh yeah and to the whole refuse the jumpseat argument going to see his kids?

First of all i dont care if his kid, wife, or parents are in the hospital dying i wouldnt let him jumpseat-- i have been vocal about that for as long as i can remember-- and yet no G0jet pilot wishes to attempt when i fly-- i fly the 2nd most at TSA and yet welcome and g0jet jumpseat confrontation not that youd get past the gate agent.

Maybe when the g0jet guy tells the person in the hospital why he cant come to see them right away he'll get the point and the bedridden person will realize what a coksucker you really are.

how's the ontime percentage? how's the crew staffing going? how are the schedules going? how is crew attrition going? how are all the job fairs going?
it's going that way for a reason.
tool
SKIPPY

This is a PRIME example of the hypocrisy that this whole thread is directed towards.

You are a Replacement Jet Pilot who has helped by dragging the entire industry down by being a RJ whore, working for peanuts at a bottom feeding commuter, and YOU have the b*lls to act all godlike with your little jumpseat .... LOL!!

Like I mentioned earlier.... (only you obviously are too spatic to bother to slow down and actually comprehend)........ you better hope the rest off the industry doesn't decide to call a spade a spade (that would be YOU)and realize what a little P.O.S. you are.... because it would be YOU that would be walking to work.

I hope you try and ride MY jumpseat one day....punk. What goes around comes around.

 

[TSA Pilot]

This is a PRIME example of the hypocrisy that this whole thread is directed towards.

You are a Replacement Jet Pilot who has helped by dragging the entire industry down by being a RJ whore, working for peanuts at a bottom feeding commuter, and YOU have the b*lls to act all godlike with your little jumpseat .... LOL!!

Like I mentioned earlier.... (only you obviously are too spatic to bother to slow down and actually comprehend)........ you better hope the rest off the industry doesn't decide to call a spade a spade (that would be YOU)and realize what a little P.O.S. you are.... because it would be YOU that would be walking to work.

I hope you try and ride MY jumpseat one day....punk. What goes around comes around.

Man, I have news for you, a 70 seat CRJ is still an RJ too. Talk about whores??!?!? I think G0Jets are the biggest whores in the industry and judging by the posts on flightinfo so do most other pilots. Also judging by the way you are ripping into the Delta pilots I dont think you are gonna be seeing their jumpseat anytime soon either. I hope you like STL.

 

[Fblowjets]

Flying for *************************s is like being picked last for sports.

 

[Angus]

LOL! Ignorant as well i see...

Man, I have news for you, a 70 seat CRJ is still an RJ too. Talk about whores??!?!? I think G0Jets are the biggest whores in the industry and judging by the posts on flightinfo so do most other pilots. Also judging by the way you are ripping into the Delta pilots I dont think you are gonna be seeing their jumpseat anytime soon either. I hope you like STL.

I don't defend the G0jets punks. Where have you seen me ONCE defend them in this thread.... moron? I don't defend them anymore than I defend the Trans States punks for whoring....err... I mean taking all the mainline flying.

Pay attention to the thread before you decide to show your ignorance. My point is about the attitude towards other Pilots that the Trans States Pilots keep showing, when they are in fact no different.

BTW - I'm not STL based idiot..... and trust me, you'll be kissing my *ss for a ride long before I ever get on one of your little planes.... (in fact many of you do already....).

 

[Fblowjets]

Angus
The thing that makes me mad at the pilot group over there, is that they could of come to TSA, won the fight and still get the flying. BUT they decided to "scab" out and got the shinny jet syndrome. If they would of joined the fight this would be a non issue cause that airline would but hurting more then it already is, and in turn would have to give the flying to TSA. Thats my beef with them alone. I got another bone with the Company which is not their fault. In other words, they took the coward way.. AGAIN MY OPINION

 

[Corbon]

Agnes and carbon,

we the pilots of TSA havent done anything? whatever-- we haevnt picketed in stl ord and IAD? we dont have stickers everywhere? we dont have media exposure? we havent set up a website? who the ************************* do u think runs the g0jetpilots.com website you idiot, an interested third party? National?
what planet are you living on?

oh yeah and to the whole refuse the jumpseat argument going to see his kids?

First of all i dont care if his kid, wife, or parents are in the hospital dying i wouldnt let him jumpseat-- i have been vocal about that for as long as i can remember-- and yet no G0jet pilot wishes to attempt when i fly-- i fly the 2nd most at TSA and yet welcome and g0jet jumpseat confrontation not that youd get past the gate agent.

Maybe when the g0jet guy tells the person in the hospital why he cant come to see them right away he'll get the point and the bedridden person will realize what a coksucker you really are.

how's the ontime percentage? how's the crew staffing going? how are the schedules going? how is crew attrition going? how are all the job fairs going?
it's going that way for a reason.
tool
SKIPPY

If you re-read my post you will see I'm talking to Angus in DEFENSE of the TSA pilots and basically saying if the APA has a problem with TSA holdings getting around APA scope, not much is happening because what TSA Holdings did is legal because of the newly created certificate. My point was, what are the TSA pilots supposed to do for AA pilots when they already have their hands full stopping GJ? The jumpseat war to which I was referring, was the proposed retaliation by AA pilots to TSA pilots for flying the 70 seaters if/when everyone is on one list.

Apparently your lack of reading comprehension is only surpassed by your complete inability to form a rational thought. Please tell me English isn't your first language. By the way, how do you fly "the 2nd most at TSA?" Sounds like something a participant in the Special Olympics would say. I'm not a psychologist, but I can only imagine that delighting in kicking some guy out of your jumpseat while his kid/wife/parents are dying in the hospital reveals some major psychological issues that should be dealt with by a professional. If you WOULD ever do that, I'd definitely stay clear of you. Karma can be a real beeeyotch and I wouldnt want to be anywhere near you when you got yours.

 

[phishn@daves]

My point that the Trans States Bonehead Pilots won't address here or ANYWHERE IS: What makes YOU flying the American Pilots scoped flying for UAL ANY different than the G0Jets Pilots flying this work. The reality is this: The Trans States Pilots are showing their lack of integrity by blacklisting the Pilots at G0Jets for doing exactly to them what the Trans States Pilots would be doing to the Pilots at American.... given the chance. The Trans States Pilots are mad because THEY can't get the flying.... even thought they sure are trying VERY hard to get it.... REGARDLESS of the American Pilots contract. That is unless the Pilots at Trans States are going to QUIT or walk before EVER turning an engine to fly that scope-busting UAL flying.... hmmmm. What do you say???

Thats what I thought.... more silence..... followed by self-righteous twisted justification.

I think the point is:

The Trans States pilots have been here for years, putting up with the management bull$hit, knowing that they control our lives month to month.

Do we feel good about their actions? Fuc% no.

We do not control what they do. We were hired by an established regional carrier............the next step after flight instructing, 135, military, etc. It's what you do. If we could have gone straight to mainline, all of us would have.

The G0jets pilots know what they are doing, they know what it's doing to other pilots, not just at Trans States.

Since we have been here, I agree Management has done some $hitty things to alot of people. Please don't give me the "just quit then, go somewhere else" bit, believe me everyone is trying to go somewhere else.

Let me get to the point: Trans States pilots are flying planes and routes under our current CBA. We do what we are told. We all came here under good faith. WE are not trying to take your flying, or your flying (eaglerj), or anyone elses. Our company started a new company to fly Larger planes for $hitty pay!

G0jet pilots KNOW what they are getting into. They are HAPPY with what management calls a 70 seat payscale. They are interviewing there knowing exactly what they are doing.

Trans States pilots ONLY wanted the flying for the payscale we submitted to the Company. That was long before G0jets. We want it now out of respect for the rest of the industry.

Angus, I believe there are two sides to every story. You have your points, everyone else has theirs. I respect your opinion, you have a right to one. I think this whole industry and Website needs to stop blaming the pilots.

But I also think some pilots need to make better decisions.

Fly Safe.