Trans States Lands At Wrong Airport

[windycty]

has anybody heard about this. seems pretty common there

 

[TSA ERJ]

They didn't land at the "wrong" airport. A J41 going to MEM had to hold for bad weather and diverted to the alternate. Unfortunately the weather at the alternate kept them from getting in after a couple of attempts. They had to land at an offline airport due to fuel concerns. Everything was legal, it was just one of those fluke scenarios where the forecasts were wrong and the weather got a lot worse than anticipated.

 

[BoilerUP]

seems pretty common there

WTF does this mean?

especially coming from a 1200 hour pilot?

 

[TWAER]

has anybody heard about this. seems pretty common there

I am sure that if he actually works for an airline, he is perfect and would never make such a mistake.

 

[TankerPuke]

I could have sworn that when I read this thread 15 mintues ago windycty's total time was 400? Interesting....


PUKE

 

[Stick Man]

well . . .

the extra 800 hrs that he has accumulated recently has given him more credibility and knowledge - don't u think?

 

[mmmdonut]

You guys need to listen to the morse code more often.....

 

[rightrudder]

Happened to me last Monday. Couldn't get into MEM, our alternate was blocked off by severe weather, the closest airport where we have our own ops (BNA) was surrounded by bad weather. Had to go to an airport not in our ops specs. No big deal, just couldn't let the pax off the plane.

 

[Frank Bama]

The guys did a great job after having to miss twice at the alternate. They got the airplane on the ground with two engines running and some gas to spare. Why don't we stop ripping on guys that deserve a little credit. Can't we all just get along? And Windycty, get a clue.

Frank

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

I agree Bama, these guys did a great job. the flight ended safely everyone has a story to tell their grandkids.

Talilwinds.

 

[BlackPilot628]

Funny

Isn't it funny how people who have no concept or idea what they're talking about, post the most trash on the message boards?

Wndycty, If you hope to make where we are, you'll learn to keep your mouth closed until you have the right info. The Union reps would eat you alive. haha

 

[Kohflot]

Why would a dispatcher and PIC allow a flight to continue with an alternate on the other side of a line of severe wx?

 

[BlackPilot628]

121 Dispatchers find the nearest sutable alternate airport with-in 1 hour Before/after the ETA.

If the weather goes to craps in flight at both Alternates you have to land somewhere; espcially if your running into a Min. fuel problem.

Most 121 OPSPEC'S say the passengers may not deplane the aircraft.

 

[Kohflot]

Dispatchers don't just look for the nearest 'suitable airport', they look for the one that is the safest and makes the most sense for each flight.

How suitable is an alternate if you have to fly through a line of severe wx to get to it?

And, if the weather 'goes to craps' at your alternate, it legally has to be changed per the FARs - even if you're already enroute.

 

[MattP]

Dispatchers don't just look for the nearest 'suitable airport', they look for the one that is the safest and makes the most sense for each flight. QUOTE]

Suitable- a. "appropriate, fitting" Websters,

Get a life....

 

[Dr.Hwang]

Cograts to crew for turning crappy situation in to a good...ie every survived. I've been in the same place and it sucks!!!! That almoct pliot has no concept of what he's talking about.

 

[Dr.Hwang]

Cograts to crew for turning crappy situation in to a good...ie every survived. I've been in the same place and it sucks!!!! That almost pliot has no concept of what he's talking about.

 

[Kohflot]

MattP:

If you fly the 340, I trust you also understand that the term "suitable airport" has a very specific definition. When one suggests that dispatchers only care about the "nearest suitable airport" when it comes to selecting an alternate, they're simply misinformed. It goes way beyond that..


Regardless, my original question still goes unanswered.. what's safe about allowing a flight to continue to a destination with an alternate on the other side of a line of severe wx?

 

[KingAirer]

Where did they land?

 

[Ted Striker]

MattP:

If you fly the 340, I trust you also understand that the term "suitable airport" has a very specific definition. When one suggests that dispatchers only care about the "nearest suitable airport" when it comes to selecting an alternate, they're simply misinformed. It goes way beyond that..


Regardless, my original question still goes unanswered.. what's safe about allowing a flight to continue to a destination with an alternate on the other side of a line of severe wx?

Since you are flying a desk, according to your profile, allow me to enlighten you to what happens almost daily. Example: I fly from SAV-DFW, alternate is DAL (Love Field, <5miles away). It's legal, it's suitable, it's on the release. There may even be a huge line of junk between me and Texas, it's still ok-legally. Now do you think if I can't get into DFW, I will be able to get into DAL? Probably not. It's my job (and the dispatcher's) to keep an eye on the situation and make sure it's still a decent plan. Alternates are typically changed enroute quite a bit. It can depend on which way you start deviating around weather. I've even had alternates change enroute because too many people had diverted there already and the station can't handle them.

If I had an alternate on the other side of a line, I'd be d a m n sure that there was something on the good side I could duck into if need be. A lot of times the alternate is just on the release to satisfy a legality. It's good, it's suitable, it's legal-doesn't mean that you are actually going to go there. Hope that helps.

 

[Kohflot]

I apologize, because it sounds like my question is being taken rhetorically.

I'm a dispatcher.

This all came up with rightrudder saying that his/her alternate was blocked off by a line of severe weather. That just sounds (on the surface) like an avoidable situation.

 

[BlackPilot628]

Mr. Ted, Very well said.

I've flown to destinations before where their is a line of weather between the 1st Alternate and the Second Alternate. They try to use Alternates that are specified in the OPSPEC's for a particular company.
Obviously, you're not going to fly through a line of weather unless the intensity is low and the P.I.C (along with the dispatcher) feel it is safe to navigate thru the weather. If not, we will have to land at the nearest suitable airport for fuel if needed.

I hope this also clears up your question, Kohflot

 

[Ted Striker]

I apologize, because it sounds like my question is being taken rhetorically.

I'm a dispatcher.

This all came up with rightrudder saying that his/her alternate was blocked off by a line of severe weather. That just sounds (on the surface) like an avoidable situation.

I agree, it probably is an avoidable situation. You know as well as I how dynamic the situation can be. I've heard guys on the radio that were he-ll bent on going to their filed alternate-just because that's what it said on the release. A lot depends on the dispatcher. Like pilots, some are better than others. Hopefully the PIC will make them get a better alternate so that their plan B is acceptable. I find a plan C is not a bad idea either. Sorry if I came across wrong, didn't know you were in the biz.

 

[efiscompmon]

I think the reference was to a TSA J32 crew in '98 who were cleared for the visual, cleared to land in Paducah, but landed across the river in Metropolis (i think--in Illinois at any rate).

The problem arose from the fact that they landed, realised the boner, taxied back and took off for the hop to Paducah, landing off the original clearance. Whoops. The crew did not fare well.

TSA's ops specs were modified to require that all visual approaches MUST be backed up with instrument guidance. This was really popular for those of us on the west coast--LAX to PSP at 1030 at night, tower closed. Clear and a zillion, overfly the airport, go out another 15 miles to thermal for the full procedure. Or take a chance on the visual and a fed waiting to bust you.

Fun job we have.

 

[Balou]

Hey windtcty-after reading what everyone has to say to your post do you feel stupid now or were you just miss informed and jumped to the conclusion that all pilots at Trans states are flying around and are lucky if they land at the right airport ?

 

[ATTCS]

Hey windtcty-after reading what everyone has to say to your post do you feel stupid now or were you just miss informed and jumped to the conclusion that all pilots at Trans states are flying around and are lucky if they land at the right airport ?

I wonder if he/she is bright enough to hear the laughter.

 

[GFunk20]

Atleast everyone ended up safe. What would we be saying today if they had run out of fuel all together and put it down in a forest? We dont need another fatality at anytime, much less with all the stuff that has been going recently.

Trans States pilots have always been great and professional to me, I use them to commute out of STL.