Training question ppl, ir, comm

[meyers9163]

So I started my PPL this week at a part 61 place. However I am already looking for information on what to do next and what route to go. Eventually I want to do something with aviation but right now just enjoying it. I know if you going part 141 for the IR you need the 35 hours and the 50xc for part 61 does not apply, is this correct? How about then the comm ratings. What are the requirements for a part 141 for a comm rating (multi, single add on)? I was reading the part 61 requires 250 hours but I was not sure how people do this. I cant find part 141 requirements for the comm rating so help would be great. Eventualy I want to instruct but going through an FBO I want to find a cheap way of getting ratings (cheaper) and not going to a "flight school". Any ways thank you for all your help in advance.

 

[minitour]

The first place I'd start is Part 141 in the FAR/AIM.

Appendix D (I believe) is Cmmercial Pilot training.

The best way to get an idea is call the 141 training center. Their syllabus is the approved course you have to do. Part 141 mins, etc apply...but the syllabus is the FAA Approved training program. The hours could be more or less.

For example, we had a "short" Commercial training program at Airman. You could have had CSEL-IA at 170 hours (I believe) using their syllabi for PPL/Inst/CSEL. If you look under Part 141 and add up the hours it's 190...so that shows you how much the individual training program can determine everything.

IMHO...if I had it to do again, I would have done it Pt 61 at a ma' n' pa' place.

-mini

 

[gkrangers]

Can't beat Part 61 imo...yeah, its more time, but you'll enjoy it so much more...

The best part of my "training" was the ~150 hours of XC time I've built, flying all over. You won't really get that with a 141 syllabus.

 

[SBD]

Run and I mean run to part 61.

"Dang I should have went to dental school!"

 

[aerobaticspilot]

No you wanna go to the part 141 direction dont listen to the last post. 141 is watched by the faa so you know your get the training you are required to have to optain to license. Part 61 training is based on what the instructor believes you need to recieve. They way i look at is you will learn more in a 141 school and waste more money in a 61 building flight time for your instructor. I have instructed in both types of schools and the better pilots come out of the 141 schools. Dont waste your time or money flying at a part 61 school.

 

[troy]

No you wanna go to the part 141 direction dont listen to the last post. 141 is watched by the faa so you know your get the training you are required to have to optain to license. Part 61 training is based on what the instructor believes you need to recieve. They way i look at is you will learn more in a 141 school and waste more money in a 61 building flight time for your instructor. I have instructed in both types of schools and the better pilots come out of the 141 schools. Dont waste your time or money flying at a part 61 school.

B.S.!!! Check out 61.107 and read to me exactally what is required to be given as areas of operation.

Nothing wrong with a 61 operation. The checkrides are the same. No reasonable instructor will set you up for failure.

 

[minitour]

I have instructed in both types of schools and the better pilots come out of the 141 schools.

That statement is 50% false for sure. You may have instructed 141 and 61, but 141 does not mean better pilots.

I saw some real slackers get through Pt 141 and I've also seen some really good sticks go through 61.

I agree with gk...the thing I wish I woulda done is my xc time building part 61. Lots of real world IFR in the system going in and out of busy, medium and slow airports shooting approaches single pilot...much more beneficial than OUN-SWO every day to build 50 hours in a 152.

-mini

 

[MFRskyknight]

No you wanna go to the part 141 direction dont listen to the last post. 141 is watched by the faa so you know your get the training you are required to have to optain to license. Part 61 training is based on what the instructor believes you need to recieve. They way i look at is you will learn more in a 141 school and waste more money in a 61 building flight time for your instructor. I have instructed in both types of schools and the better pilots come out of the 141 schools. Dont waste your time or money flying at a part 61 school.

That is the biggest crock of pure sh*t I've seen in awhile. I am building time, albeit more slowly, at a great part 61 operation in Southern Oregon. "Timebuilding" on paper doesn't look that fun, until you get out there in the airplane and realize that your only requirement is to fly somewhere 50+ nm away. You think there's a little room for having a good time there? You bet.

Also, to imply that part 61 is not watched by the FAA is like saying your parents teaching you how to drive vs. going to a driving class is not regulated by the DMV. Your state still provides a list of requirements for taking the practical test, doesn't it? And they're not going to issue you a license if the quality of your training, whoever you received it from, isn't up to their standards.

You get the drift.

MFR

 

[meyers9163]

So part 61 must have 50xc before you do the IR where part 141 isnt the case? 141 just need the ppl (pre req) and your 35 hours (min) IR training?

Commercial, i know 61 you have to have 250 TT and your IR or working on it. What is the difference between that and the part 141?

Cost is what i'm worried about. I'd love to fly more and do it the 61 route but I cannot afford to pay for the time building and was thinking I can do the structure and save money going 141. Any ways if i can get help on that it'd be great.

 

[gkrangers]

190TT Commercial, Part 141. Could be less tho, in certain programs. It can be difficult to find a Part 141 school if you are limited to a small, local airport with a small flight school.

 

[meyers9163]

Thanks, so 190 TT which still would require some time building with that of course. Figure 50-60 for PPL, and then 35-45 for IR..... but 90 hours of time building sounds better than 150 hours to meet the 250 part. There are two local FBO's that offer 141 training for commercial. Any thoughts on what way to do this, Commercial single multi add on, or multi comm single add on? I know the cheaper way but I was just wondering.

 

[gkrangers]

Cheapest way would be Private Single, Instrument Airplane, Commercial Single, Commercial Multi Addon.

I don't know how the training works for the 141 Commercial...I don't know if there is room for timebuilding, or if the remaining hours between IR and COMM are all lessons of some sort in a syllabus. Someone with 141 experience can help you out.

I started my IR 141 then got tired of the syllabus and started doing it Part 61, doing XCs with my CFI, etc...more fun, more "real world" experience...

 

[Buckeye]

Part 61 or Part 141, do what is better for you. In the end it is the same license. There are`pro's and cons to both, PM me if you want more info.

 

[troy]

Thanks, so 190 TT which still would require some time building with that of course. Figure 50-60 for PPL, and then 35-45 for IR..... but 90 hours of time building sounds better than 150 hours to meet the 250 part. There are two local FBO's that offer 141 training for commercial. Any thoughts on what way to do this, Commercial single multi add on, or multi comm single add on? I know the cheaper way but I was just wondering.

you would be flying certain lessons within the comm sylabus, not just "time building" to get to the 190 mark (add on 120 hours to the inst ticket) Most of the lessons in the 141 comm are xc flights that are interspersed with your building of knowledge of the manuvers.

 

[fatdumbandhappy]

there are good 61 and 141 schools, and there are bad 61 and 141 schools, just because it is 141 does not mean a thing. go to the best school you can find in your area and demand the best instructor you can find, and better yet, find a career instuctor if you can and pay the little extra to fly with him or her.

 

[mddg3581]

• I agree with the statement of having pros and cons for both. I will say that alot of FBO's offer both routes which is beneficial for a number of reasons. One benefit for part 141 though is the lower hour requirements. If you really have the extra money than why not just go out and get the cross country time whenever you want off the syllabus since its all getting logged anyway with the freedom of being able to kick things into motion quicker if you decide to move forward in the career direction? Part 61 or 141 does not gaurantee better instruction or making you a better pilot. Much of these two things really depends on quality instruction. For every half ass student there are half ass instructors slipping by 61 and 141. A good instructor will help you get the necessary knowledge regardless of the program you are in. As far as a syllabus 141 needs one and many 61 schools use one as well. It does help you sort of keep track of the pace you should be on. All the 61 and 141 differences are somewhat negligable as far as hours are concerned for your ppl. Keep doing your research though and asking questions. I would not listen to any opinions here though that are too far biased in one way or another.

 

[Joshrk22]

Okay dumb question... what's the difference between Part 61 and Part 141 schools? Also, my CFI(soon to be, when I start training) is not located at a flight school. He's just a CFI out there to teach people how to fly, not log hours or make very much money. He's charging me $20/hr for instruction and $18/hr for the plane. I've flown with him a few times, so I don't know if that's why it's so cheap. There's a flight school down the road at a Class C airport. They told me around 8000-10000 for my PPL through there. I'm only 16, I dont have that kind of money. What do you guys think? I'm interested in aviation for a career so I want good training, I'm thinking more of a military career then probably airlines down the road.

 

[gkrangers]

PPL can be had for as little as 4000-5000 with a decent price, and minimum hours. 6000-8000 is a pretty fair estimate, favoring the low side...8-10k is just way too much.

 

[CKJET]

Just go to ATP you will be a RJ F/O in 90 days!!!!!!

 

[meyers9163]

Thanks for the replies. However I was wondering what thoughts are on doing it the FBO route? I've never heard so much complaining until I recently stated my interest in going the FBO route. Before I stated I waned to go to an ATP or fast flight school and there was complaining about that as well. Any ways going this route at an FBO WILL be cheaper there is no dout. Right now I found an FBO that will take me IR-CFII for about 17k total. This way they do an IR/Comm course (without multi add on) and then have you start instructing/flying out of the right seat near the end of your comm rating so you can be prepared shortly after to take a CFI check ride and CFII after that. Any ways I was wondering if anyone has done this before and could give me some advice. The way I've figured, and have extra room for cost is this would be roughly 17k and 204 flight hours (50 ppl i already will have done).
The ATP grads/students are all about the MULTI time which is great but what have others done in order to get Multi time to be interviewed or meet the mins? I was just wondering how going the FBO route will either put me at a disadvantage or advantage (other than not being in debt like many)? All the help has been great. Looking for more. Thank you