Training Q

[JD2003]

I wonder if anybody out there has an opinion about what I should do?

I want to fly the jungle jet CHQ or Eagle. I have about 600 tt and 120 Multi. I don't see the point in getting a CFI because I have a good paying job working ground ops for United....yes...United. It keeps me pretty much occupied and I wouldn't have time for students and couldn't do them justice with the schedule I keep.

I sweated my butt off for UAL and saved $$ for two years and bought an airplane. A VFR 1973 aerobat. I can log as many hours as my greedy heart desires for an operational cost hovering about 15$/hr. It does limit me to VOR approaches and holds in simulated IFR conditions because I can't afford a KX155 with a KI-209.

What is the next step for me? Should I continue to log hours, albeit limited in scope and complexity, or should I plan on hitting a program like TAB Express to round out the ATP?

Do potential employers view aircraft ownership as a competitive advantage in the hiring process?

Anybody willing to walk my stuff in?

Thanks in advance for anybody willing to reply,

perplexed and somewhat frustrated,

JD2003

 

[JD2003]

Very true...thanks fly

 

[LR25]

Though I am not a CFI, and yes hours are hours, but I think your selling yourself short.

Working the ramp is good and all, but whats that doing for your flying career?

If I were you, I would work on the ratings while you have a descent income, but soon after that, I would get the CFI, or start looking for that right seat part 135 job, in a jet, in a DC-3, in whatever you can get hired in.

I think you are doing the right thing and setting your goal, but working as a CFI instead of boring holes in the 150 seems to be the better option.

I dont know how much you make working the ramp, but you may take a drastic paycut to start instructing, but like the old saying goes, you cant have your cake and eat it to.

Good luck.

 

[tarp]

"perplexed and somewhat frustrated"

Wait till you're "jaded and completely frustrated"!

Seriously, though, set your goal and set your timeframe. Even though CHQ and maybe MESA are hiring, look at this board. It's going to be 5, 6 maybe 8 years before we see the next upturn in the industry. This "downbeat" in this aviation cycle was compounded by cut-throat pricing (over-capacity) and the security threats generated by terrorism. We haven't seen the bottom yet and are still waiting for the fall-out from massive salary reductions in new contracts that all the airlines are trying to secure.

What are you offering your potential employer? Your competition today is: Furloughed 121 pilots, frustrated Part 135 pilots that have not been able to move up the ladder, CFI's that have been "stuck" at flight schools. These folks come with multi-thousands of hours, the first group with Jet time, the second group with plenty of multi/crew time and the last group with CFI experience.

When you send your resume to CHQ or Eagle, define your current aviation employment. You are working the ramp. Points for being in aviation but you are not FLYING your aviation job. Aircraft owner is a liability not a credit - your hours are fairly unsubstantiated and are not guided by any CRM or discipline flying. 700 hours of C-152 aerobat time has fattened your logbook and is painful to think about, but look at your competition again. CFI's in C-172's but teaching and dealing with "other pilot" scenarios - flying is disciplined by course requirements to get students through. Survey and photo pilots have missions and even though again not flying any thing more sophisticated than a C-172 are flying for a business owner that expects results and not broken airplanes or FAR violations.

In 5 years and another hiring boom, maybe you can show up at the door with 1500 TT and 250 multi and you are a shoe in but not today.

If you want something to chew on, my first dream of being an airline pilot occurred in 1972 at the end of the Vietnam War - pretty bad time for airlines. I did something else. In 1982, something stirred my soul to try again - very bad airline industry timing. I stopped my dream with a Commercial license and went back to make a living. In 1990, I got some beautiful CFI certificates but managed to get laughed at by almost every FBO in the state of Maryland while looking for a job. Went back to my job again. Finally in 1996, I couldn't stand my desk job one minute longer and just quit. I went to the airport and just started hanging out. In two weeks - I was a CFI at the airport, in two months - I was the Chief CFI at the airport, in two seasons - I was flying charter, and in two years - I was hired at a regional.

All the golden rules apply: 1.) Timing is everything. 2.)It's not what you know, but WHO you know. 3.)Reach for the stars but keep your feet planted on the ground. 4.) Never give up.

 

[JD2003]

thanks tarp...LR25,

Thanks tarp...LR25...that's allot to chew on. I should mention that I do allot of cross country time-building flying my A150 back and forth to work. It puts me into some pretty complex flight situations what being vectored in behind heavy 67's and the like but you are right I might be selling myself a little short.

I had thought that ownership would be more of an asset though. Not just the operator but also the owner implies allot of responsibility what with maintenance intervals, insurance, and a myriad of additional responsibilities that come with it.

Believe it or not UAL ground ops does pay more than CFI with health benefits too but the advantages of having a CFI, whether I use it or not, are plain to see. I should mention an uncommonly known fact in the industry and that is that the guy/gal hoofing bags is also the guy/gal who pushes your jumbo into active taxi-ways, performs weight and balance calculations, communicates with dispatch, etc...etc...not just hotheaded bagsmashers limited in scope of experience of value to future employers. Pretty much dead end...but there is still some value in it.

The other method behind my madness...or call it the theory by which I have predicated this decision on is my concept on value in training...or value in timebuilding. I can convert my asset into cash which I can convert into a larger/more complex airplane, or more complex training in larger more complex equipment. Instead of paying usurous lending institutions interest for years to come for training in other people's equipment...I pay myself...and I like that.

Thank you both for your replies,

still perplexed but less frustrated

If i'm flying a jungle jet in 5 years...that'll make me a happy camper.

 

[LR25]

JD, I have been a heavyjet mechanic for the last several years for 3 or so freight airlines before I decided to try to become a pro pilot. I thought all I had to do was just wait my turn with the airline and I will move my way up to a seat. That was a great idea in the mid 90's, and I had all my ratings with about 1500 hrs at the time also, nowadays, that kind of thinking will get you no where fast.

I hate to make sound like preaching, but alot of us on this board have got the T-shirt, and the T-shirt disintergrated a long time ago.

I have found that its all or nothing when it comes to flying for a career. If you want to fly for a career, especially in this market and the market for the future, you need to take action today. You cant just kinda sorta be pursueing a flying career, thats what makes or breaks alot of people when it comes down to trying to do this.

Tarp is right, the company of pilots that will be sending resumes along with yours will have a definite edge over yours, I'm not saying it isnt possible, but you will be swimming up a raging river.

I would get your CFI, and make that airplane work for you instead of flying to work.

Then you get that part 135 job in the afformentioned positions on my last post, or a banner towing job, traffic watch, fish spotting, ferry pilot, you name it. There are jobs out there for you to pursue, you just need to clear the last couple of hurdles and do it.

It aint glamorous climbing the ladder, but it sure will pay off.

I got tired of watching all the airplanes rolling out on the runway wishing I could be in one of them.

Make some command decisions.

 

[bobbysamd]

Shortcuts

I understand where you're coming from regarding TAB Express; so many people are looking for shortcuts, but beware. The time you build will look a lot better if it is earned through paid employment. Most people can pull together money to pay for time; it takes a little more ability to actually find an aviation job and be paid to fly.

I second the above suggestions about earning your CFI. You own the perfect airplane in which to give primary training. It would take some doing and jumping through some insurance and business organization hoops, but you could instruct in your airplane and be paid for building time.

Employers won't necessarily regard aircraft ownership per se as an asset. Anyone can buy and fly an airplane. There are plenty of doctors and lawyers who own Bonanzas and Barons. But you would be viewed as a person of determination if you built a business with your airplane.

Finally, please realize that employment is tight right now and competition is fierce. Some of the best and most qualified pilots around cannot find work and are happy to be selling hardware at Ace.

Recommended reading: Moondog's Academy of Flight and Other Disasters by Pete Fusco. It's available at www.amazon.com. Not only will you laugh your socks off, you will learn quite a bit about the business.

One other point: Don't foreclose on flying other airplanes besides the Jungle Jet. Lots of people would jump for joy to fly CRJs, or just to be invited to a CRJ class.

Good luck with your plans.

 

[Timebuilder]

JD, I feel your pain.

In 2000, I quit a 50K job to study FULL TIME for my CFI, and spent seemingly endless hours at the flight school, mostly waiting for students to show up (my TV commercial garnered ZERO calls) when I had no one on my schedule.

Don't spend all of your time in undirected, unprofitable VFR flying. Get your CFI, and the other "I's" too. Deal with the business of flying, of dealing with another pilot, explaining the concepts, demonstrating good flying technique, and building experience.

It's great to have a goal, but you will need to remain flexible. My goal was Comair in 2000. I only had half of the flight experience by June of 2001, and my dream of flying for Comair came down with the world trade center on September 11th. Seven months later, I'm flying a Lear. If I had been fixated on an RJ like you are fixed on the Jungle Jet, I might never have sent a fax to my current company.

Get flying, get instructing, and get flexible.