Training problems for AA flowbacks

[InclusiveScope]

From the 11/7 APA update......


EAGLE FLOW-THROUGH TRAINING: After learning that five of the first eight flow-back pilots from American to Eagle experienced training difficulties, the APA National Training Committee met with the Eagle MEC National Officers and the October flow-back classes currently in RJ training. The purpose of this meeting was to explore the differences between American Airlines and American Eagle training. We are satisfied that there is no hidden agenda within the program and, as a matter of fact, our pilots are highly complimentary of the quality of instruction and the training staff. The APA Training Committee will soon post further details about the training environment and the differences from AA training.

 

[Networ-King]

"We are satisfied that there is no hidden agenda within the program and, as a matter of fact, our pilots are highly complimentary of the quality of instruction and the training staff"

Come on....... after that d a m n letter written by an american eagle guy going around how can anyone thing that there is no hidden agenda here. They are going to screw with these guys any way they can......

Oh well.... you guys flowing back to AE.... watch your backs and good luck..

 

[sleepy]

I don't think so. They just don't cut Eagle pilots the same slack that they cut you guys at mainline carriers. At all of the regionals that I am aware of, you get very little extra help. You either make it or you don't. That is the way it is at ASA too. We wash a lot of experienced pilots out of training.

 

[jetexas]

Come on....... after that d a m n letter written by an american eagle guy going around how can anyone thing that there is no hidden agenda here. They are going to screw with these guys any way they can......

How do you know an Eagle guy even wrote that letter? How can you base the opinions and hypothetical agendas at Eagle on one 'letter'.

The training dept at Eagle is supposedly one of the best in the industry. Those guys wouldn't risk their careers by going up against the APA or AMR even if they had an "agenda". The AA flowbacks all get the same check rides and training as any "Eagle" pilot gets or has gotten. The AA guys even get 4 rides in the jumpseat before the start of IOE for "familiarization". Regular eagle guys have never gotten this kind of priviledge.

Eagle training includes a three strikes program. no Quarter. You perform or you hit the street.
AA trains students to proficiency over there under much less "cut throat" terms.

 

[TWA Dude]

I don't have any details of the Eagle training program, but having just completed newhire training at TSA I can attest to the difficulty in returning to the regionals. It's just a more bare-bones operation that's more in a weed-out mode than the majors. One needs to constantly repeat the mantra "cooperate and graduate" in order to put up with the silliness. Thus if one isn't mentally prepared it's easy to see how some serious adjustment is involved. I wish it were different but the fact is that regionals make training much more difficult than it needs to be. Even good pilots make mistakes.

 

[80drvr]

How do you know an Eagle guy even wrote that letter? How can you base the opinions and hypothetical agendas at Eagle on one 'letter'.

The training dept at Eagle is supposedly one of the best in the industry. Those guys wouldn't risk their careers by going up against the APA or AMR even if they had an "agenda". The AA flowbacks all get the same check rides and training as any "Eagle" pilot gets or has gotten. The AA guys even get 4 rides in the jumpseat before the start of IOE for "familiarization". Regular eagle guys have never gotten this kind of priviledge.

Eagle training includes a three strikes program. no Quarter. You perform or you hit the street.
AA trains students to proficiency over there under much less "cut throat" terms.

I think that APA's public release of this information elevates the visibility of flowback training. The message here is that taking someone out in a simulator is not going to go unnoticed.

 

[English]

I think that APA's public release of this information elevates the visibility of flowback training. The message here is that taking someone out in a simulator is not going to go unnoticed.

It's not going unnoticed...the guys failing training are being put out on the street, rightly so.

 

[BE99chick]

I do have knowledge of Eagle's training program and it IS one of the best in the business. I left Eagle after three years for another regional and the training at the new place wasn't nearly as good. Frankly, after training at Eagle in two aircraft, I can tell you it's not all that difficult. Sure, you have to study some...that's natural. I suspect we may just have some whiners unhappy with the reality of life at the regionals. And BTW, the DOT classifies Eagle a a Major airline.

 

[Networ-King]

Alright..... I don't know if that letter was actually written by an Eagle guy, but I do know about Eagle's training department cause I used to work there. I had a few hundred hours of Jet time and lots of piston time when I went there and I made it through training. Good tranining and studied my a$$ off. Now maybe AA guys can chime in here, but as we all know AA's training was one of the most brutal courses for newbies going on the 727 panel. It was known in the industry, just like Transtates was known for being ball busters in training. As far as Eagle.... I still have a ton of friends there and they are NOT happy with the flow backs. Be that as it may, whether a training program is good or not, as an instructor you can always fail someone in a sim ride for anything. And if you think regional training is tough, try going to contract training. You get a bunch of books handed to you and you get thrown in the sim. Then when it comes time for the checkride you find out that you learned all the wrong call outs, because your instructor works for another company and thats all he knew to teach you. I'll take Eagle training over Contract training any day. And one other thing.... the ERJ is not a tough bird to learn at all. It has its own little idiosyncrasies, but definitely not a hard plane to learn JMHO.

Okay go ahead slam away..................

 

[eaglefly]

I'll chime in.

*Disclaimer - The following information represents the sole opinion of the poster and is not represented as fact.

The first 10 flowbacks (class 1) will be mentioned here.

2 did not start training because 1 got a military contract job and 1 did not meet the 3000 (pilot) hour qualification.

Of the 8 who attended Captains training, 4 did not make it to type-ride recommendation status (too many "unsats" during the training-progress was too slow), but apparently are getting extra training (they are not in IOE yet). Of the remaining 4 who made it to the type-ride, 2 busted and are still in training and 2 were successful and are in IOE.

Now some additional info :

AA flowbacks receive "psychological training" (1/2 day-4 hours) to deal with several issues :

1.) The fact they'll be on reserve and sitting around crewrooms and in many cases may not be particularly "welcomed". Also Cockpit anymosity with F/O's, many of whom will do little more than required of the "blue book".

2.) Virtually no work rules (RSV at Eagle + Low staffing) and HUGE shock to previous work environment.

3.) Very little likelyhood of holding a regular line as they will remain at bottom of captains list at every domicile, so no end in site.

They will also be getting at least 4 flights in the jumpseat to observe (even previous "street" new-hires never got "psych training" nor multiple jumpseat observations- so Eagle manegement is bending over BACKWARDS to coddle the tender flowbacks).

Eagle management took the initiative to insure that no bias would be placed upon AA flowbacks during training. They placed it in the lap of the FAA POI who oversees EMB training and he supposedly has added about 5 inspectors who have observed all their types, so the Eagle training department has gone "by the book". No favors, but no "fangs".

Either the candidate meets minimum acceptable standards or not (as the FEDS are watching).

It is rumored that it is the FAA (NOT Eagle management or training department) is who has been concerned about the potential safety aspects of the "flowback" situation AND THEY ARE WATCHING.

BTW, Eagle has a "three point" training system.

After 3 points you're continued employment is at the discretion of the company.

The flowbacks can quit or bust out of training and not jeopardize their recall rights to mainline (10 years).

What a deal, huh ?

But, if they hit the 3rd strike, supposedly they get a 609 ride (and should in my opinion).

There is NO draconian system against flowbacks (in fact, it seems just the opposite).

With all that, 2 out of 8 ain't good.

Again, this is all "opinion and rumor" and I do not represent this as fact.