Training in other peoples airplanes

[rumpletumbler]

I work for a flight school. There are many planes on the ramp that don't belong to the flight school that I don't have any time in that people want me to fly with them in, be it they are not comfortable in IFR conditions to whatever. I don't see it as a problem but I wanted opinions on this? I'm sure the sticklers would want you to have a thorough checkout in every a/c etc. but it just doesn't seem feasible. Am I wrong in thinking this is ok to do?

 

[Lead Sled]

Go for it. Just make sure you've got insurance coverage since one way or another you're going to end up as PIC.

'Sled

 

[Vik]

Every aircraft should have a checklist, yes, especially if you are not familiar. Try figuring out where the emergency gear extension handle is in my plane without the checklist

Be careful in someone elses plane. Most private owners don't do everything legally and its usually unintentional. Their insurance company will hold YOU responsible should anything go wrong. Even if they add you to their policy, if the accident is in anyway your fault, they'll sue you for the cost and reimburse the owner.

The instructor I got my for plane made me sign a wavier so that he is not liable should anything happen. You might want to consider that.

When I fly new planes, I go over the emerg checklists and just get the Vspeeds down.

 

[FracCapt]

Check into the insurance policy. If you cannot be insured as PIC, don't do it. If so, make them list you on the policy as an additional insured. Then, get the AFM and read it. Figure out the systems. Make sure you know the emergency procedures. As an instructor, you WILL be PIC as far as the FAA is concerned if anything goes wrong.

 

[350DRIVER]

Check into the insurance policy. If you cannot be insured as PIC, don't do it. If so, make them list you on the policy as an additional insured. Then, get the AFM and read it. Figure out the systems. Make sure you know the emergency procedures. As an instructor, you WILL be PIC as far as the FAA is concerned if anything goes wrong.

If this individual makes it known to the owner and an agreement is in place prior to him stepping foot into that aircraft that should something go wrong, he is not at the controls, etc, then by no means would he be deemed the PIC of the owner furnished aircraft. I would always make this 110% clear before I would ever step foot into someone else's aircraft- Obviously if the owner is only a student pilot then it would be a completely different ballgame since he wouldn't legally be able to log pic time with another person onboard and would only be able to log dual until he is on a solo flight.

I would not want to be held accountable, liable, responsible, etc, for injury or death due to someone's screw up that may be beyond my control.

Just make sure you watch out for yourself and take all precautions to minimize your risk(s) and vulnerability.

3 5 0

 

[Vik]

I'd agree with you if he was joyriding, but he is giving instruction.

No matter what is in writing, the FAA will hold him accountable.

If this individual makes it known to the owner and an agreement is in place prior to him stepping foot into that aircraft that should something go wrong, he is not at the controls, etc, then by no means would he be deemed the PIC of the owner furnished aircraft. I would always make this 110% clear before I would ever step foot into someone else's aircraft- Obviously if the owner is only a student pilot then it would be a completely different ballgame since he wouldn't legally be able to log pic time with another person onboard and would only be able to log dual until he is on a solo flight.

I would not want to be held accountable, liable, responsible, etc, for injury or death due to someone's screw up that may be beyond my control.

Just make sure you watch out for yourself and take all precautions to minimize your risk(s) and vulnerability.

3 5 0

 

[vclean]

Review the logbooks for the required inspections and AD compliance. Don't forget ARrOW. You can/will be held accountable if the aircraft is flown without the proper airworthiness items.

 

[JediNein]

If this individual makes it known to the owner and an agreement is in place prior to him stepping foot into that aircraft that should something go wrong, he is not at the controls, etc, then by no means would he be deemed the PIC of the owner furnished aircraft.

Not true. The FAA has ruled many times that a CFI is PIC even if that CFI is not in the front seat and does not have access to the flight controls. The remedial training programs, 709 rides, and so on don't make it to the online court cases. Besides, can most CFIs afford an NTSB appeal? Can their estate?

Each owner should check their insurance and add you as additional insured to their policy if you do not qualify under "open pilot" or "open instructor" clauses. Make sure you are covered as an instructor, not just a pilot. When something goes wrong, the insurance company will look for any excuse not to pay. They may deem you PIC even if the FAA has not done so.

Finally, why would you want to instruct and not be PIC? Especially when you'll be instructing folks that are not confident of their ability in conditions where they are not confident? Make it easy on all and just be PIC.

Set expectations up front. 1. Airworthy aircraft including all supplements to the flight manual (new avionics, engine upgrades, etc). 2. You're insured. 3. You are PIC and will keep that right. 4. Even if the pilot thinks they know the plane better than you, you are still the instructor, otherwise, why are you there? 5. Get a copy of the checklists and make your own version. 6. In multi's you'll need 5 hours of PIC before you can instruct. 7. In others, the first flight will be VFR in VFR so you can get familiar with the plane.

There will be many times where you will have to check yourself out as a CFI. Why pass up the opportunity to fly several unique, well-equipped, well-maintained aircraft when with a little study and a flight you can be up to speed?

Those owners that happily accept your boundaries are worth flying with and will probably greatly benefit from your instruction. They may even thank you for helping them bring their airplane into compliance. They may hire you to manage their plane or be their corporate pilot (be familiar with part 119/135 and don't stray into it). Those that won't accept your limits, are not, will not, and won't. Why waste your time with those types?

I fly a lot of spotless Bonanzas, 210s, Dakotas, and other unique airplanes with plenty of toys in the panel. I haven't flown or needed to fly a junker (airworthy but, no moving map GPS, working autopilot, GEM/JPI, and so on) since April.

While your co-irkers are bouncing around the pattern in the school's planes, you'll be flying cross countries in Bonanzas, 210s, Saratogas, and probably a whole host of twins.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[midlifeflyer]

350, I have to more or less agree with Vik on this. Never mind the PIC issue. The CFI doesn't have to be PIC to be held responsible, although there is some poorly thought out language in some NTSB cases that suggests that a CFI is always PIC when giving instruction. Giving bad instruction or not acting as a reasonable instructor would under the circumstances is enough to get hung on.

But, rumple, the insurance issue is an important one. Insurance policies are highly technical legal documents that are misunderstood more often than understood. If you are concerned about liability, get your own CFI policy. =Do not= rely on your student's insurance covering you. It won't. Being listed as a "named pilot" doesn't protect you. Being listed as an "additional insured" protects you when you are flying your student's airplane for personal purposes, not when you are instructing in it. Receiving a "waiver of subrogation" only protects you from your student's insurance company, but no one else.

 

[vclean]

6. In multi's you'll need 5 hours of PIC before you can instruct.

The 5 hours PIC in make/model only applies in providing instruction for a certificate or rating.