Msg for sublimaze
Hey Sub'!
Where do you come from? From which EU country? You seem to have experienced the **** French DGAC! In Europe the market is in a very very bad shape...
In france except the only one Major Air France there is no opportunity to get a F/O job. Yes there are some Air France regional feeders but the job openings for the next 10 years are limited to 10 positions within 1 year, another 10 in 2005 etc... I would say that the best EU aviation market is in UK! As "Business" is an english word this is not surprising... Did you know that in France there are only 400 jet liners? Air France and its regional feeders own 90% of these 400. After you're in the turbo prop field which is crappy as well.
What a bad situation.... really.
Let's give you some datas. Assuming you're an airline transport wanabee in France...
- 1st Class Medical JAR initial examination: 450€ (much more restrictive than the US medical...)
- You must have a PPL license before starting the "upper lever" ground school : price from 6000€ to 10 000€
Then you're lucky enough to start your ATPL ground school. In France the major groundschool is "Institut Jean Mermoz" in Orly (South of Paris). You can attend this course full time or via distance learning... I must told you this is NOT a funny "game" to enroll in that course. It's very hard because in France, UNFORTUNATELY, we consider flying an aircraft like doing a Ph.D in Mathematics. I mean you should be ready to work mathematics and physics books before being able to understand the course (I'm not kidding!). So many students have a science educationnal background... We can't fly with passion, we do it with Math... I'd say this is a typical French way.
So 14 exams (principles of flight, mass and balance...) to sit and pass.
Price of the course range from 3000€ (DL) to 10 000€ (Full time) (all included, fees...)
.... Wow you did it! Fine job! At this time you MUST not think about what will be the opportunies when you'll send your résumé to "every airline".... Or you might consider a suicide attempt.
Then because you're just a PPL licensee you have to build your flight experience! Moving to the US for a while to rent an aircraft represents the cheapest way to log 150h which lead you to be eligible to start your Commercial License. In France we used to do the IFR after the CPL... Cost : 8000€
CPL 9000€
IFR + multi : price range from 25 000€ to 30 000€
Then because you would like to work as a F/O for an airline , you have to do the MCC, Multi Crew Coordination, needed prior starting a type rating (That's the CRM courses we have in USA). Price: 5000€
So.... Here is the HUGE bill: range from 56450€ to incredible amount!
NOW, you're ready to find a job. That's not easy... You have only 300 hours.... what a great experience. Finally, that's very hard to find a decent flight instructor position here.
So How to do? Win a Greencard and go back on track on a BS and do your flight training at a local FBO!
That was a kind of negative report on the JAR FCL French market but I just wanted to show you how desesperate might be some young pilots dreaming of a F/O position (many of them have huge loan to pack back as well).
Of course some low time pilots found jobs there... But...
KD5UEN
Hey Sub'!
Where do you come from? From which EU country? You seem to have experienced the **** French DGAC! In Europe the market is in a very very bad shape...
In france except the only one Major Air France there is no opportunity to get a F/O job. Yes there are some Air France regional feeders but the job openings for the next 10 years are limited to 10 positions within 1 year, another 10 in 2005 etc... I would say that the best EU aviation market is in UK! As "Business" is an english word this is not surprising... Did you know that in France there are only 400 jet liners? Air France and its regional feeders own 90% of these 400. After you're in the turbo prop field which is crappy as well.
What a bad situation.... really.
Let's give you some datas. Assuming you're an airline transport wanabee in France...
- 1st Class Medical JAR initial examination: 450€ (much more restrictive than the US medical...)
- You must have a PPL license before starting the "upper lever" ground school : price from 6000€ to 10 000€
Then you're lucky enough to start your ATPL ground school. In France the major groundschool is "Institut Jean Mermoz" in Orly (South of Paris). You can attend this course full time or via distance learning... I must told you this is NOT a funny "game" to enroll in that course. It's very hard because in France, UNFORTUNATELY, we consider flying an aircraft like doing a Ph.D in Mathematics. I mean you should be ready to work mathematics and physics books before being able to understand the course (I'm not kidding!). So many students have a science educationnal background... We can't fly with passion, we do it with Math... I'd say this is a typical French way.
So 14 exams (principles of flight, mass and balance...) to sit and pass.
Price of the course range from 3000€ (DL) to 10 000€ (Full time) (all included, fees...)
.... Wow you did it! Fine job! At this time you MUST not think about what will be the opportunies when you'll send your résumé to "every airline".... Or you might consider a suicide attempt.
Then because you're just a PPL licensee you have to build your flight experience! Moving to the US for a while to rent an aircraft represents the cheapest way to log 150h which lead you to be eligible to start your Commercial License. In France we used to do the IFR after the CPL... Cost : 8000€
CPL 9000€
IFR + multi : price range from 25 000€ to 30 000€
Then because you would like to work as a F/O for an airline , you have to do the MCC, Multi Crew Coordination, needed prior starting a type rating (That's the CRM courses we have in USA). Price: 5000€
So.... Here is the HUGE bill: range from 56450€ to incredible amount!
NOW, you're ready to find a job. That's not easy... You have only 300 hours.... what a great experience. Finally, that's very hard to find a decent flight instructor position here.
So How to do? Win a Greencard and go back on track on a BS and do your flight training at a local FBO!
That was a kind of negative report on the JAR FCL French market but I just wanted to show you how desesperate might be some young pilots dreaming of a F/O position (many of them have huge loan to pack back as well).
Of course some low time pilots found jobs there... But...
KD5UEN
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