Training Contract

[scummy]

Get this.....The wonderful company I work for has asked for a training contract after a month and a half after I completed my type rating. I was scheduled over two months prior to the training event in which they could have presented it. In addition, there was never any mention of a contract prior to my training. My D.O. and C.P. have my back but the owner is hell bent on getting me to sign. Basically, he says sign or I will be fired. Has anyone out there ever heard of such a thing? Or advice? Right now I am refusing to sign.

 

[EatSleepFly]

HAHA...what?! Wouldn't firing you for not signing it defeat the purpose of wanting you to sign it in the first place? Am I reading that wrong, or is he really that retarded?

 

[AZ Typed]

unfortunately these things are getting more and more common - especially in corporate gigs. hell even NJ has a 2 year lock in. good 'ole WB locks in his investment in crews I guess. the fact is that people will fly with em, so we might as well get used to the growing number of them. the key is keeping the terms in your favor as much as possible which in my mind is:

1. short lock in term
2. contingencies on company for new types, etc inside initial contract
3. of course...after the dust settles, the company DOES pay for the training (albeit in maybe a round-about way)
4. I know I'm missing some...

welcome to aviation...**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**it.

 

[English]

I'd refuse to sign as well. Good for you.

Start looking for another job just in case, but I think the guy is bluffing. One of my former employers did this to a former coworker of mine, and it turned out to be a bluff. That was a wake-up call to my friend, and he started looking for other work. Now he's working at a Fortune 100 company.

Look at this as an opportunity to see what else is out there. It's going to take him just as long to find your replacement and type him/her as it will take you to find another gig.

 

[LXJ31]

It depends on the salary and the outlook for this company. If it doesn't pay that well or you are looking at a long upgrade, I wouldn't do it. I imagine the owner got to this station in life by being a smart businessman; ask him if this was a business deal and he was in your shoes whether or not he'd completely re-negotiate the terms of a completed deal to his detriment? I'll bet I know the answer...

Now, that doesn't mean his bluffing. I'd guess the odds are better than 50/50 he would can you over this; if he's got the stones to tell you to sign a retroactive agreement that he himself would never sign, he'd eat the 15-20 grand (or whatever it is) to prove a point, stroke his ego and save face in the eyes of the other people familiar with the situation.

 

[pilothouston123]

Pilots need always have money in the bank and thier resume current. Haveing a plan B always makes it easier to dael with crap like this

 

[billybob100]

i have heard of cases where this type of situation was taken to court. The Owner/Operater lost the case. I really think it's illegal...

 

[SlipperyPete]

If you like this place and want to stay, sign it. Otherwise the boss is always gonna have it out for you. If you have some integrity politely decline to sign because the contract is after the fact.

You've got the rating. They can't take it away from you. If they let you go it's really their loss. Good luck.

 

[Lear-fan]

contract won't hold in court

For a contract to be valid there has to be consideration. What is the company's consideration to you. Just a job does not cut it. An employment contract would. Offer them an employment contract that sais they will pay you if they lay you off. That is concideration.

If it makes them feel warm and fuzzy, go ahead and sign it. If you find a better job and want to leave let them come after you. You will be offered two options, one will be to go to arbritration the other court. DO NOT take the arbitration route (you may lose). go to court and you will win. You have to trained to work for them and you can't be an indentured servant in the eyes of the court. Also you were forced to sign it under durress.

I was on the management side once and the pilot took arbitration and lost. Our lawyer told us if he had elected to go to court the company would have lost for the reasons I mentioned before.

DES

 

[AerroMatt]

Asking you to sign a contract after the fact is kind of like a single mom going to her doctor and asking for a retroactive abortion! Just on general principle, I'd tell that boss to go ahead and fire me cause I couldn't work for somebody who'd stoop so low. Make sure your resume is up to date, and ALWAYS leave yourself an out! Good luck on your job hunting.

 

[Kingairrick]

This exact thing happened to a buddy of mine recently. The traing contract for a DA50 type 6 weeks after he got back from school. WTF? Why not just wait 2 years? Anyway I think he said something like "OK, let me run it by my lawyer. I sure don't have a problem if he doesn't. After all, I don't want to leave." The company promised to get him a copy of what they wanted him to sign, and never mentioned it again.

Kind of a good way to deal with the LXJ31 situation, which I agree is a real possibility. If they call YOUR bluff, get an attourney to read it and give his advice. Probably the best $200 you'll spend this year.

 

[sigmetV]

Make up your own contract and ask then to sign it. I've seen this tactic before; they think you have no other option but to sign. I would be looking for another job while telling them you are thinking about it. Once you have some thing lined up, go to the table and talk to them. Any way, have a plan "B", be prepared to walk out, you would be surprised how often they change tactics.

Good luck!!!

 

[flyinlow67]

A training contract isn't legal unless it is presented and signed BEFORE employment is offered. A buddy of mine was presented a contract after he was hired, but before he started work and was able to get out of it. The court ruled that it has to be presented before hiring, not after.

 

[dmbmarkt]

That place sounds like a total joke. Run far and run fast.

 

[PlaneStupid]

I like lear-fans consideration angle. Tell them that you enjoy working for them and are also interested in job security. Offer to sign the contract with the provision that they provide you an equitable amount of cash as a severance package should they terminate your employment for whatever reason. This should be a win-win.

 

[TimsKeeper]

My company did the same thing recently asking to sign after I got back from training, but I don't plan on going anywhere so I signed without much fuss. What good is a rating without a few hours in type anyway.

Also, my company took a pilot to court recently and won over a signed contract. He didn't make a valid point for leaving and had to pay 3/4 of the training costs!
So don't think it is a completing unenforceable contract if written correctly. The kicker is the pilot got laid off from the airline he went to and asked to come back! I can only imagine the response, because he isn't here now!

 

[scummy]

I was finall let go today. They would not negotiate with me and could not not guarantee me a salary or anything else. I chose to not sign on the line and because of their short comings I was fired. So, if you know of any place looking for citation II with V differences drop me a line.

 

[Dangerkitty]

Where are you based? Are you willing to relocate?

 

[scummy]

i am based in the boston area, yes, willing to relocate

 

[Corona]

I was finall let go today. They would not negotiate with me and could not not guarantee me a salary or anything else. I chose to not sign on the line and because of their short comings I was fired. So, if you know of any place looking for citation II with V differences drop me a line.

I am sorry to hear that. That owner sounded like a scumbag. Too bad the management didn't back you up more. Kudos for standing up to them.

C