trade a GNS430 for the 480?

[CutEmUp]

Here's the deal.

Currently have a 430 and like it a lot. Everything else on the panel is standard older equipment and we are looking to upgrade. As of now we are definately getting a GMX200 MFD w/traffic, GTX330 mode S transponder, Wx subscription, and possibly Jeppview subscription.

Should we trade in the 430 for the 480?

With the MFD, what are the advantages of having the 480, and is it worth the price? (a few thousand bucks)

 

[gkrangers]

Shot in the dark, but I thought the 480 was pretty much the 430 with VNAV?

 

[Groundpounder]

Nope, the 480 is what used to be called the GNX 80 and was made by UPS/AT. We looked into getting a pair for the airplane, and while they are a bit different to use than a 430/530, it is a much more powerful box. More like an FMS than a plain old GPS. The only thing that killed the sale for us was it can't display datalinked weather, but since you are getting an MFD anyway, this isn't a problem for you.

I had started a thread long ago about the 430 vs the 480, try to do a search for it, there was some pretty good info.

 

[cptsesso]

Probably the biggest difference is the 480 has the ability to program airways into flight plans where as the 430 does not.

I would go with the 480 for this reason.

 

[YankeeEcho]

In addition to having airways in the database (important only to high-altitude pressurized folks) it also has the ability to serve as the remote control head for a remote transponder - saving panel space. Originally the GNX 80 could channel a remote transponder but not a Mode S remote transponder. I understand that has now changed. SO - forget the 330 and get the remote version.

 

[cptsesso]

Why is having an airway database only important to high-altitude pressurized folks?

I have my boss's personal Baron 58 at my home airport for the summer to use at my will and I would much prefer to have an airway database than just the 430 which is in it.

I was out yesterday doing some flying and had to drag out the low chart several times to make route changes atc gave me.

 

[YankeeEcho]

Why is having an airway database only important to high-altitude pressurized folks?

I have my boss's personal Baron 58 at my home airport for the summer to use at my will and I would much prefer to have an airway database than just the 430 which is in it.

I was out yesterday doing some flying and had to drag out the low chart several times to make route changes atc gave me.

I fly both heavy jet and C310 - and typically, at low altitudes, we get direct or just VOR fixes as part of our flight plans -(compared to high altitude clearances) and rarely have to get a chart out for airway fixes. Just my experience. I'm not putting down the 480 - would probably do it if faced with that decision today. However - if you grew up with garmin products - the 480 keystroking logic is still Apollo's logic - not Garmin logic - most find it takes some getting used to.

 

[cptsesso]

I guess it depends where you live. Here in the northeast, you fly fixes and airways a lot more than in other parts of the country. In the jet, once away from the northeast, I rarely ever end up flying airways. It is always direct to some fix hundreds of miles away or direct destination.

I agree with the keystroke logic of the 480. I downloaded a demo before and the 430 was much easier to use

 

[Diesel]

I am about a step away from ripping my 430 out of the panel for a 480.

I hate the 430. It's great for a 172 but has no place in IFR airplanes.

 

[clickclickboom]

480

I am about a step away from ripping my 430 out of the panel for a 480.

I hate the 430. It's great for a 172 but has no place in IFR airplanes.

I have a 530 and 430 in my cessna 310.. In addition it has 330,340,327 etc...

I have used the 480 and once you have it figured out it is great..

On a flight from FL to NY IFR it will literally take you 15-20 mins to load in all the fixes on the route.. plus once you get to dc they reroute you anyways..

The 480 is a no brainer..

 

[Diesel]

click click i do the same exact flight as you a couple of times a month. So i know your pain.

We have a 430/530 combination and its useless in the NE because of constant route changes. thank god for fltplan.com because all you have to do is enter the points from that and you more or less stay on the route.

 

[clickclickboom]

530

click click i do the same exact flight as you a couple of times a month. So i know your pain.

We have a 430/530 combination and its useless in the NE because of constant route changes. thank god for fltplan.com because all you have to do is enter the points from that and you more or less stay on the route.

i like the 530 it takes the time to load the fixes.. you can short cut and enter only the important fixes and then if they give you a reroute or enroute fix to fly to just insert it as necessary..

overall great units and garmin has changed the industry..

 

[CalifDan]

We have dual 430's in our Duchess as well as the MX20. I have a limited amount of experience flying a 480 in a friends 414 and it does things the 430 will not as described earlier (VNAV, holds, and programming via airway). The 430/530 upgrade is promised from Garmin later this year. I understand it will include many changes to hardware and all new software and provide the WAAS which will give it VNAV capability. Perhaps it will pick up a few more options on the way also.

I personally like the dual 430 installation and would suggest that whatever you do, don't mix. They do operate different. I fly out west and routes changes are usually not complicated, but when they do occur, I find that getting the information in is not particularly troublesome. You just need to stay ahead of the flight plan.

Not a direct question, but you indicated that you were going mode S for traffic. We thought about that, but just before we did our upgrade, the FAA decommissioned several Mode S areas. I think that ADS-B is the future and in the meantime we did a Ryan TCAD that interfaces with the 430 for display. Interestingly, the MX20 does not have sufficient inputs to display GPS, weather and TCAD at the same time. I believe that Garmin solved this with the new multifunction display.

 

[YankeeEcho]

The 430/530 upgrade is promised from Garmin later this year. I understand it will include many changes to hardware and all new software and provide the WAAS which will give it VNAV capability. Perhaps it will pick up a few more options on the way also.

Not a direct question, but you indicated that you were going mode S for traffic. We thought about that, but just before we did our upgrade, the FAA decommissioned several Mode S areas. I think that ADS-B is the future and in the meantime we did a Ryan TCAD that interfaces with the 430 for display. Interestingly, the MX20 does not have sufficient inputs to display GPS, weather and TCAD at the same time. I believe that Garmin solved this with the new multifunction display.

Does anyone know if the WAAS upgrade to 430/530's will include airways? if so, it will be a better unit from the user-friendly point of view than the 480. Obviously it will have VNAV.

RE: the inputs to the MX20 - don't discount the EX500 from Avidyne - I have it and I see traffic, radar, (onboard or nexrad) and everything else all the time - it's a great unit.

 

[Diesel]

I hadn't heard about the upgrade so I will definetly ask the avionics shop about it.

Does anyone have a list of changes that will be made?

 

[Groundpounder]

Ugh.....

I was trying to get the boss to get a pair of 480's, but he wanted wx datalink, so we are getting a pair of 430's with xm weather. If we got the 480's, then a Garmin 396, we would have had everything and more, since he didn't want to spend money on an MFD. We flew back from the NE yesterday and got three different re routes, all with different airways. It was such a PITA having to keep plugging in all the waypoints. Oh well, thats what I get paid for. At least the 430's will be an improvement over the KLN 94 we have now.

 

[CutEmUp]

In addition to having airways in the database (important only to high-altitude pressurized folks) it also has the ability to serve as the remote control head for a remote transponder - saving panel space. Originally the GNX 80 could channel a remote transponder but not a Mode S remote transponder. I understand that has now changed. SO - forget the 330 and get the remote version.

This is good info since we are having an issue with panel space. I will look into it as another plus for the 480.

Also, a lot of the flying that I do IS on airways and LOTS of route changes. I've gotten very quick with the 430, but it still does take a lot of twisting, how exactly does the 480 speed this up?

I guess I'm not too up on the ADS-B situation. How long, realistically, before the system is up and running in the U.S.? I'd say mode-s traffic will probably suffice now, and at least a few years into the future.

 

[cptsesso]

"how exactly does the 480 speed this up"

The 480 has all of the airways in it's database. If you are given direct to "abc" then V399 to "def", you would enter "abc" then select V399 from abc to the next fix "def". It will then automatically insert all of the fixes which make up V399 between "abc" and "def". A lot less work for the person entering the flight plan.

 

[CalifDan]

I would be interested in any intel on the upgrade also. Garmin keeps things pretty quiet. The original plan was to have the WAAS upgrade available over a year ago. They finally determined that a software upgrade was not going to be enough. They provided a $1500 upgrade path through the end of November 2005 I think. Current pricing is $2000. These amounts did not have to be prepaid, but do need to be pre-arranged. The Garmin site is still reporting the upgrade availability to be later this year, but they have delayed before on this. The only change I know of for sure is the WAAS which will include a faster processor, hardware changes associated and software. I do not know about any other features that will be added.

Some I would like to see are the aforementioned holding ability, better route planning and putting some data together on an output port to free up an input port on the MX20.

 

[CalifDan]

guess I'm not too up on the ADS-B situation. How long, realistically, before the system is up and running in the U.S.? I'd say mode-s traffic will probably suffice now, and at least a few years into the future.

ADS-B nationwide will be more than a few more years. In the meantime, the mode-s will give you some protection around busier airspace but we decided that it was not sufficient, particularly if the FAA is actually shutting down mode-s coverage areas (which they did last year, two of them I think).

 

[JimNtexas]

I'm sure that the WAAS upgrade to the 430/530 will be just that, an upgrade that provides WAAS.
The upgrade is pretty cheap as Garmin stuff goes, the money to add airways just isn't there, even if the existing software could support it which is unlikely.