Tough Times for Independence

[Always deferred]

For the record... as a pilot near the bottom of the Indy list...a twenty-something prepared to give up flying should this endeavor fail...I would like to say that if it does fail, I have NO regrets nor do I blame out mgmt for the risk they have taken. It's been said before...I would rather lose my job as an Indy pilot, then be bent over JOs knee or ever be a part of anything JO or MESA. (Not directed towards the good MESA pilots) This sentiment is echoed in all Indy pilots.
The end.

 

[aa73]

I disagree with you. Southwest "declared war" directly on American Airlines which had a virtual monopoly on all flying through Texas. There were countless legal battles, some of which still affect Southwest's ability to operate freely out of certain airports inside of Texas (Dallas Love Field especially). Southwest also had extremely low fares and went so far as to offer passengers 750ml bottles of booze with each ticket purchase in order to entice them away from American.

I think you mean Braniff and Trans-Texas, right?

aa73

 

[DirkkDiggler]

No, I mean American and Frank Lorenzo. It's because of Lorenzo that Southwest has limits on where it can fly nonstop out of Dallas Love Field.

 

[JetLinkin Park]

For the record... as a pilot near the bottom of the Indy list...a twenty-something prepared to give up flying should this endeavor fail...I would like to say that if it does fail, I have NO regrets nor do I blame out mgmt for the risk they have taken. It's been said before...I would rather lose my job as an Indy pilot, then be bent over JOs knee or ever be a part of anything JO or MESA. (Not directed towards the good MESA pilots) This sentiment is echoed in all Indy pilots.The end.

Well put. I've got nothing but respect for Indy guys. I'd rather work at Best Buy then work for Mesa. I've even got the letter to prove it......

 

[AirBoard]

Indy is done for. Writing on the wall.

Too high of a cost structure, not established in markets, decalring war on virtually ever other carrier, oil over 50$ a barrell.....


JO told us at Mesa if ACA didnt take our offer they were done for. Sadly, I think he called it.

Ya know, I agreed with you till the last sentance. Yeah time are really tough for us, if we could have predicted $50+ oil prices we should have invested there instead of an airline. Nevertheless, 99.9% of Indy pilots would rather go down with the ship than have worked along side the likes of JO's beatches.

 

[Billy Madison]

Just four months after its launch, Independence Air is right up there with some of the largest U.S. carriers - in survival mode.

Dear ACA,

Thank you for furloughing me last year. Good luck with that new airline.

Billy

 

[rptrain]

rptrain,
I've heard of both of them. However most people have not because they don't exist anymore. The idea is to be someone, someone knows of, and not someone no person has ever heard of. Anyone remember Air Florida? Look up the old routes they flew, it was real cool. Untill I did I had know idea they had 737 and DC10's. I would like to see Indy make a good future, but FBC was right in his view. You can't use an RJ as a lowcost aircraft with this climate. even thier own Bis Plan was for fuel at $30 a barrel. At this point in time I would not give anyone but SWA but a ok chance at keep a arm let alone a head in the market.

You think that maybe part of the reason these airlines aren't around anymore might have something to do with Southwest? Look, I'm not saying FLYi and SWA are two peas in a pod. But I'm also not making grossly inaccurate comparisons about their beginnings like your esteemed colleague did.

Frankly, I'm really disappointed in many of the reactions from pilots on this board. Of course, the response from some of the spineless MESA folks is predictable. They'd rather be proven "right" even if it means being JO's house bytch. However, hearing it from the AirTran guys is surprising. Do any of these sound familiar?

"They'll never survive against Delta in Atlanta."

"They're just the rebranded ValuJet."

It must be nice and comfortable to be at a place like the AirTran of today in these turbulent times. Sadly, we can't all be so lucky, but it sure is disappointing to see those who are lucky enough (and that's all it is, ace: luck) to be in a good spot take a dump on those who aren't. Especially when they crawled out of the exact same hole.

 

[rptrain]

Dear ACA,

Thank you for furloughing me last year. Good luck with that new airline.

Billy

Payback's a bytch, and so are you.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

Payback's a bytch, and so are you.

Everybody play nice or don't play at all

 

[Peleton]

3 months do not indicate future performance. Give us all a chance, we still do not even have the 319's operating yet so how can people say the buisness plan does not work. Thats right, nobody hear has even read the buisness plan, the one stating RJ's feeding the 319's. But if the 319's are not operating as of today how can you make a judgemnet on the buisness plan??? YOU CANNOT!

Kerry Skeen has NEVER I repeat NEVER said that he could operate a LCC with RJ's only. He always said he needs the RJ's to feed the 319's and the combined product will compete as a LCC. I wish all the people would just engage the little brain and read the buisness plan before you open our mouths. It absoultly amazes me the mind numbing atmoshpere that is prevelent in this industry. I know this job takes away brain cells as it is repetitive but try to engage the remaining cells before you spout off.

BTW, last time I checked MESA is not a financially healthy company, look at your own balnace sheat before you pass judgments on others. For all the AT people bad mouthing us, just 3 short years ago you were hanging on by a thread, if not for Boeing giving you guys a sweet deal on the 717's you would all be out of a job. 9/11 helped you dramatically as it weakend DAL. If DAL files for BNK I see you guys in a whole lot of hurt as DAL will be able to pound you with a better product at a competitive price.

If, and I repeat if we go out I hope we cause enough harm throughout the industry to take down several other airlines along the way. I did not feel that way at first but now after seeing the hatered scattered throughout the industry we might as well go down and take others along with us. I pitty the soles in the AT behind me IAD, can you say GO AROUND!

 

[Twotter76]

Well thats one of the more ignorant posts i've read lately. I do not wish unemployment on any pilot - however I have said from the beginning that Independence is not going to work. Heres a question for you - if you can only scrounge up 45% loads even with all the money that you all have spent on advertising what makes you think that just because you have an airbus or two people will suddenly flock to your airline. You have already proven that simply having the lowest fares will not make people flock to your airline - having a bigger airplane isn't going to change that. It just means that you will have more open seats.

There really aren't many healthy airlines right now - the difference is that the majors have larger cash reserve to continue operating on and they have an estabilshed brand identity - you all have neither. However this is all just business and should not be made personal (we are all pilots after all) and to wish unemployment on the rest of us just because your gamble isn't working out is just plain rude.

Just in case you decided to look at my profile I am a former Blueridger and I put my money where my mouth is - I quit and went to another airline because I thought Independence was doomed from the beginning.

I am tired of hearing about the whole Mesa episode. All I ever hear is that if you all didn't do it then you would have been bought by JO. Seems to me that that was averted well before the launch of Independence and was never really a risk anyway with the posion pill clauses that existed at the time. You all wanted to go down on your feet and now the market is simply giving you that opportunity - be careful what you wish for. I really do wish you all the best of luck since many of my friends are still there but the future is uncertain for you at best.

Twotter76

 

[RSRVWINDSURFR]

No, I mean American and Frank Lorenzo. It's because of Lorenzo that Southwest has limits on where it can fly nonstop out of Dallas Love Field.

Sorry about the thread drift but.....Lorenzo had very little to do with the limits imposed on Southwest--or anybody flying out of Love on jets with more than 56 seats. The Wright amendment was brought upon by the city of Ft. Worth because they were pissed that they bucked up all this $$ for DFW, and airlines were still choosing DAL Love which was inconvienient for the Ft. worth public. Also, it was Braniff that was giving SWA all the legal heartache about Love, not AA. After Braniff was gone, AA knida took the legal battle torch from Braniff, but that was much more recently.

 

[Tooslow]

Good luck to Indy,


Dear Tom,

Thank you for furloughing me early last year so I could gain seniority at another airline while I sit back and watch them squash US Air and ATA.....Thank God I fly for strong airline like CAL.................all the way to Mexico and Back.......

We will all see what happens...........

 

[Publishers]

Exactly Windsurfer-- good old Texas politics.

 

[Alex Chilton]

"Just in case you decided to look at my profile I am a former Blueridger and I put my money where my mouth is - I quit and went to another airline because I thought Independence was doomed from the beginning."


Twotter76,

Did you quit or were you furloughed?

 

[Tooslow]

I bet twotter was born in 1976.....................

 

[Bravo F/O]

Indy Pilots...Full speed ahead!!!!!!!!!. Don't look back!.