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Top reasons to allow wiretaps and profiling

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Dennis Miller

What about my Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2003
Posts
200
It wouldn't have been more obvious if it were Ramzi El-Kaboom.

Suspects in thwarted bombing plot.

ALI, Abdula, Ahmed
DOB: 10/10/1980

ALI, Cossor
DOB: 04/12/1982

ALI, Shazad, Khuram
DOB: 11/06/1979

HUSSAIN, Nabeel
DOB: 10/03/1984

HUSSAIN, Tanvir
DOB: 21/02/1981

HUSSAIN, Umair
DOB: 09/10/1981

ISLAM, Umar
DOB: 23/04/1978

KAYANI, Waseem
DOB: 28/04/1977

KHAN, Assan, Abdullah
DOB: 24/10/1984

KHAN, Waheed, Arafat
DOB: 18/05/1981

KHATIB, Osman, Adam
DOB: 07/12/1986

PATEL, Abdul, Muneem
DOB: 17/04/1989

RAUF, Tayib
DOB: 26/04/1984

SADDIQUE, Muhammed, Usman
DOB: 23/04/1982

SARWAR, Assad
DOB: 24/05/1980

SAVANT, Ibrahim
DOB: 19/12/1980

TARIQ, Amin, Asmin
DOB: 07/06/1983

UDDIN, Shamin, Mohammed
DOB: 22/11/1970

ZAMAN, Waheed
DOB: 27/05/1984
 
The libs would have a fit cuz they say it's illegal.

Better to be blown up in jehad a free man than live in a George Bush run country free of terrorism with electronic servailance and wiretapping of towelheadded thugs.
 
Dennis Miller said:
It wouldn't have been more obvious if it were Ramzi El-Kaboom.

Suspects in thwarted bombing plot.

ALI, Abdula, Ahmed
DOB: 10/10/1980

ALI, Cossor
DOB: 04/12/1982

ALI, Shazad, Khuram
DOB: 11/06/1979

HUSSAIN, Nabeel
DOB: 10/03/1984

HUSSAIN, Tanvir
DOB: 21/02/1981

HUSSAIN, Umair
DOB: 09/10/1981

ISLAM, Umar
DOB: 23/04/1978

KAYANI, Waseem
DOB: 28/04/1977

KHAN, Assan, Abdullah
DOB: 24/10/1984

KHAN, Waheed, Arafat
DOB: 18/05/1981

KHATIB, Osman, Adam
DOB: 07/12/1986

PATEL, Abdul, Muneem
DOB: 17/04/1989

RAUF, Tayib
DOB: 26/04/1984

SADDIQUE, Muhammed, Usman
DOB: 23/04/1982

SARWAR, Assad
DOB: 24/05/1980

SAVANT, Ibrahim
DOB: 19/12/1980

TARIQ, Amin, Asmin
DOB: 07/06/1983

UDDIN, Shamin, Mohammed
DOB: 22/11/1970

ZAMAN, Waheed
DOB: 27/05/1984


Look, these guys come from a broad strata of society. They are all unique individuals with nothing in common. I read these names and don't see a common connection, other than they are all young. We should've given them jobs so they wouldn't have decided to blow up thousands of innocent people.





There...now I feel good about myself for not being one of the crazy, hate-filled right wingers in the world who actually believe we are fighting people motivated by religous hatred. :bomb:
 
Right on Magnum. Understanding these people and their motivations is the first step towards appeasment. Oh wait wrong decade.
 
MAGNUM!! said:
Look, these guys come from a broad strata of society. They are all unique individuals with nothing in common. I read these names and don't see a common connection, other than they are all young. We should've given them jobs so they wouldn't have decided to blow up thousands of innocent people.





There...now I feel good about myself for not being one of the crazy, hate-filled right wingers in the world who actually believe we are fighting people motivated by religous hatred. :bomb:

You need to come out of the cave you've been living in and read something else besides flightinfo.

Most muslims do not like Jews. Jewry occupies their "holy lands." Hitler just loved Jews. Stalin loved everyone. Ever hear of the crusades? The spanish inquisition? Protestant reformation? Martin Luther? Salem witch trials? The Taliban? Just muslim boy scouts, right?

Religion is hatred. Religions hate any thought that is contrary to their teachings. Athiests hate just as much, and in many ways are more devoted than those that practice any particular religion.

I'm not a "crazy winger" of any description. I don't advocate killing someone because of race, color, or creed. However, on airliners, I don't mind if we profile. I had a black female FA tell me once not too long ago she unashamedly profiles against men, 20-40 of middle eastern descent. I've had to explain more than once that a Sikh in not a muslim.

You may not think that we are at war, but there are millions woldwide, with jobs, that hate the U.S. and are willing to do anything to destroy us. This includes strapping bombs on their kids, and I do mean children, so they can blow themselves up at a bus stop. There are photos on the internet that shows what these things do to these kids. There is nothing more vile than brainwashing some kid and sending him off to sacrifice himself for a religion.

Don't be paranoid, don't fill your heart with hate, but wake up! Pay attention. Read between the lines and read more than one newspaper. But not the NYT or the LAT. They've become too political.
 
HalinTexas said:
You need to come out of the cave you've been living in and read something else besides flightinfo.

Most muslims do not like Jews. Jewry occupies their "holy lands." Hitler just loved Jews. Stalin loved everyone. Ever hear of the crusades? The spanish inquisition? Protestant reformation? Martin Luther? Salem witch trials? The Taliban? Just muslim boy scouts, right?

Religion is hatred. Religions hate any thought that is contrary to their teachings. Athiests hate just as much, and in many ways are more devoted than those that practice any particular religion.

I'm not a "crazy winger" of any description. I don't advocate killing someone because of race, color, or creed. However, on airliners, I don't mind if we profile. I had a black female FA tell me once not too long ago she unashamedly profiles against men, 20-40 of middle eastern descent. I've had to explain more than once that a Sikh in not a muslim.

You may not think that we are at war, but there are millions woldwide, with jobs, that hate the U.S. and are willing to do anything to destroy us. This includes strapping bombs on their kids, and I do mean children, so they can blow themselves up at a bus stop. There are photos on the internet that shows what these things do to these kids. There is nothing more vile than brainwashing some kid and sending him off to sacrifice himself for a religion.

Don't be paranoid, don't fill your heart with hate, but wake up! Pay attention. Read between the lines and read more than one newspaper. But not the NYT or the LAT. They've become too political.

I was being sarcastic. I know the enemy.
 
MAGNUM!! said:
I read these names and don't see a common connection, other than they are all young. We should've given them jobs so they wouldn't have decided to blow up thousands of innocent people.
Get serial, you can't give a Gen-X'er a job, they'd have to put their nintendo and their skateboard down for 8 hours.
 
MAGNUM!! said:
And the water bong.
Water bong? Get it on, bang a bong, get it on.

You're built like a car, you've got a hub cap diamond star halo
You're built like a car, oh yeah
You're an untamed youth that's the truth with your cloak full of eagles
You're dirty sweet and you're my girl.
 
HalinTexasMost muslims do not like Jews. Jewry occupies their "holy lands." Hitler just loved Jews. Stalin loved everyone. Ever hear of the crusades? The spanish inquisition? Protestant reformation? Martin Luther? Salem witch trials? The Taliban? Just muslim boy scouts said:
HalinTexas,
Religion is NOT hatred. Man is hatred. When man gets in involved in anything it is always less then perfect. Just like you mentioned in your first paragraph, all those acts were performed by man. A church is a group of men (and women) who are far from perfection led by a priest or pastor who is not perfect. If you place your faith in man you'll almost always be disappointed. The atheists and many of the left wing love it when people of faith (especially Christians) screw up by committing adultrey,financial scams,and just about any other act condemned by one's religion. But you see they have it all wrong. God gave man free will. We've been screwing it up since day one and will always fall short of God.
 
learherkjay said:
I think you mean Gen Y. I am 34 and officially GEN X and I don't even own an X-BOX.

Dude you're missing out, Madden is awsome on 360.
 
rayford steele said:
HalinTexas,
Religion is NOT hatred. Man is hatred. When man gets in involved in anything it is always less then perfect. Just like you mentioned in your first paragraph, all those acts were performed by man. A church is a group of men (and women) who are far from perfection led by a priest or pastor who is not perfect. If you place your faith in man you'll almost always be disappointed. The atheists and many of the left wing love it when people of faith (especially Christians) screw up by committing adultrey,financial scams,and just about any other act condemned by one's religion. But you see they have it all wrong. God gave man free will. We've been screwing it up since day one and will always fall short of God.

For in religion as in friendship, they who profess most are ever the least sincere.
-Sheridan
 
rayford steele said:
HalinTexas,
Religion is NOT hatred. Man is hatred. When man gets in involved in anything it is always less then perfect. Just like you mentioned in your first paragraph, all those acts were performed by man. A church is a group of men (and women) who are far from perfection led by a priest or pastor who is not perfect. If you place your faith in man you'll almost always be disappointed. The atheists and many of the left wing love it when people of faith (especially Christians) screw up by committing adultrey,financial scams,and just about any other act condemned by one's religion. But you see they have it all wrong. God gave man free will. We've been screwing it up since day one and will always fall short of God.

OK, religion is the excuse for hatred. An atheist doesn't have to hate. A religious person doesn't have to love. I can't recall a violent conflict that ever included atheists specifically. "Godless" is used, but that's pretty subjective.

Some are literalists, so their religion is perfect. It's teachings are perfect, and their will is for the "glory of God/Allah/Jehovah/Yahwa" to be deteremined by their leaders.

Some faiths believe in pre-destination. Will is taken out of the picture.

Christians, and others, love to point out the failings of men and almost always suggest the reason is their "Godlessness." So the real question is, "Which god (small "d") do you put your faith in?" (Sorry about the dangling preposition.) This brings us back around to Moral Relativism and square one.

I don't believe we are in a war of civilization, yet, but I think their is definitely a violent conflict of civilizations.

I believe in freedom and will fight for it. I'm very thankful (and a little guilty) every time a see someone in uniform. I also believe in respectful tolerance. I don't believe any faith has either one of those tenants in their creed.

Killing for religion or political beliefs is wrong. Killing to protect your family and your way of life is acceptable and less wrong, respectively, depending on the situation. Killing to protect others that can't protect themselves from someone that is killing them is noble.
 
HalinTexas said:
OK, religion is the excuse for hatred. An atheist doesn't have to hate. A religious person doesn't have to love. I can't recall a violent conflict that ever included atheists specifically. "Godless" is used, but that's pretty subjective.

Some are literalists, so their religion is perfect. It's teachings are perfect, and their will is for the "glory of God/Allah/Jehovah/Yahwa" to be deteremined by their leaders.

Some faiths believe in pre-destination. Will is taken out of the picture.

Christians, and others, love to point out the failings of men and almost always suggest the reason is their "Godlessness." So the real question is, "Which god (small "d") do you put your faith in?" (Sorry about the dangling preposition.) This brings us back around to Moral Relativism and square one.

I don't believe we are in a war of civilization, yet, but I think their is definitely a violent conflict of civilizations.

I believe in freedom and will fight for it. I'm very thankful (and a little guilty) every time a see someone in uniform. I also believe in respectful tolerance. I don't believe any faith has either one of those tenants in their creed.

Killing for religion or political beliefs is wrong. Killing to protect your family and your way of life is acceptable and less wrong, respectively, depending on the situation. Killing to protect others that can't protect themselves from someone that is killing them is noble.

Well most of the atheists I've listened to hate religion. They hate when we use God on dollar bills,the pledge of alegiance, and the City of LA flag (actually a cross symblizing how LA got its start as a mission).

Perfection could only be in God and Jesus Christ when referencing Christianity. Not to sure about the other religions. I studied Budhism in college and understand the allure but found it to leave me a bit empty. At the risk of being redundant religious leaders are men therefore imperfect. Moral Relativism speaks to the belief that there are no absolute truths because of our culture or upbringing. If you "have" religion this doesn't apply. Many folks have never been exposed to religion in their youth only to accept a religion into their life as well as those that convert from one to the next. I didn't like philosophy too much so I never made it past 201 so I'm close to ignorant on the many theories of relativism.

Yes many religions believe in pre-destination. In fact the bible says (and I loosely quote) I (God)now every hair on your head.

I concur with the last half of your post.
 
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rayford steele said:
Well most of the atheists I've listened to hate religion. They hate when we use God on dollar bills,the pledge of alegiance, and the City of LA flag (actually a cross symblizing how LA got its start as a mission).

Perfection could only be in God and Jesus Christ when referencing Christianity.
Poindexter, the dollar bill don't say nothing about Christianity on it.
 
rayford steele said:
Well most of the atheists I've listened to hate religion. They hate when we use God on dollar bills,the pledge of alegiance, and the City of LA flag (actually a cross symblizing how LA got its start as a mission).

Perfection could only be in God and Jesus Christ when referencing Christianity. Not to sure about the other religions. I studied Budhism in college and understand the allure but found it to leave me a bit empty. At the risk of being redundant religious leaders are men therefore imperfect. Moral Relativism speaks to the belief that there are no absolute truths because of our culture or upbringing. If you "have" religion this doesn't apply. Many folks have never been exposed to religion in their youth only to accept a religion into their life as well as those that convert from one to the next. I didn't like philosophy too much so I never made it past 201 so I'm close to ignorant on the many theories of relativism.

Yes many religions believe in pre-destination. In fact the bible says (and I loosely quote) I (God)now every hair on your head.

I concur with the last half of your post.

Personally, I 'later' every hair on your head. Sorry all your non-believer friends are so agressively against your beliefs. I don't declare any one G.O.D. the true G.O.D. However, I do have faith. I've always found that as soon as someone comes to me to tell me without a shadow of a doubt things that they can't possibly know, and then follow it up by asking for money, I've just got to raise the BS flag. It reminds me of that great George Carlin routine about how "God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good....he's just really bad with money." To me the real truth is fairly simple: people=bad; persons=good. By the way, if you haven't seen "Dogma" it's a pretty amusing take on things, in the usual Kevin Smith style.

-Blucher:beer:
 
FN FAL said:
Poindexter, the dollar bill don't say nothing about Christianity on it.

NO it doesn't and I never said it did. It does say God. Thanks for the name calling.
sincerely,
Poin(t)dexter
 
HalinTexas said:
You may not think that we are at war, but there are millions woldwide, with jobs, that hate the U.S. and are willing to do anything to destroy us.

Don't be paranoid, don't fill your heart with hate, but wake up! Pay attention. Read between the lines and read more than one newspaper.
I wish more people thought like this, including some politicians.

It becomes more and more difficult to vote when THERE IS NO CLEAR-CUT BEST CANDIDATE. And even when you vote a decent one in, there are dozens more who are just there to get fat off the cow (senate, congress).

So even though a decent percentage of the population understands that racial profiling isn't about hate or fear but about the odds being in the high 90'th percentile, in THIS current political and global situation, that you have the people who are going to commit these atrocities, you can't get anything done like the OTHER countries ARE getting done.

What should be interesting is if the British ever release the methods under which they caught all these people BEFORE the unthinkable happened. If it came under wire taps and suveilance that wouldn't NORMALLY be allowable under U.S. law, I wonder if it will stir debate and a more open surveillance policy here domestically?

If you don't have anything to hide, why do you care about wire taps? There's nothing going on in my household or life which would get me in any legal trouble...

Incidentally, whether you're religious or not, the bible predicted this fallout towards Jews about 2000 years ago. I find it interesting, if not necessarily "prophetic", that a 2000 year-old book would know that the Jewish community would keep getting the short (and pointy) end of the hate stick for the next 2-plus millenia.

p.s. Magnum and many others on this board who served are pretty easy to recognize, might check out the profile of who you're talking to before you tell them something about recognizing the enemy... :D

Christians, and others, love to point out the failings of men and almost always suggest the reason is their "Godlessness." So the real question is, "Which god (small "d") do you put your faith in?" (Sorry about the dangling preposition.) This brings us back around to Moral Relativism and square one.
Ahhh, but how do you teach Moral and Ethical values to your children without bringing God into it? How do you teach your children that THEY are THEIR OWN conscience? I struggle with that question more and more as my children become of age to need that moral and ethical fiber and, as a country that has, for SO long, used God to teach those values, I struggle for another way to make them feel responsible for their actions when so many of their cultural peer groups, both in real life and on T.V. have basically NO ethical or moral base.

I also believe in respectful tolerance. I don't believe any faith has either one of those tenants in their creed.
Hmmm... Not sure I totally agree with you there. Most faiths have some semblance of respectful tolerance, but most faiths still believe you're going to hell if you aren't of the same faith, even one that believes in the traditional 'God'. I've experienced many of them, some on the fringes, and most believe that, in some way, you're "lost" if you are any other religion.

The problem is the core life situation of the religion in question. If religion is all you have, then you tend to be extreme about it. There's a whole discussion here about what your driving base needs are versus how religious you are and how, in the U.S., church populations are at their lowest percentages of overall population in the history of man, but I digress.

Could it be that staunch religion has been what has kept crime down and, now that religious belief is tapering off, crime and war are on a dramatic increase? What else explains it?
 
Lear70 said:
If you don't have anything to hide, why do you care about wire taps? There's nothing going on in my household or life which would get me in any legal trouble...
I agree! Most, if not all Americans are up to no good and bear considerable watching.

I believe that the homeland insecurity problem can be resolved through phone taps and constant surveillance, the elimination of the barriers that divide the three branches of government and the eradication of that document that has long served its day...the US Constitution.
 
canyonblue said:
Dude you're missing out, Madden is awsome on 360.
HALO - you gotta play Halo.
BTW - I'm a "gen x" er and I could be some of these guys father (I'm not! I swear I thought she was 18! Oh yeah back then I was 18).

FWIW Gen X is commonly defined as those born between 1961 and 1981.

Baby Boomers: 1946 -1964
Gen X: 1961 - 1981
MTV Generation : 1975 - 1985

So while some of these wackos could be defined as gen X as a group they are more MTV generation.

The term was coined as a result of a 1964 study of British youth by Jane Deverson. Initially, Deverson was asked by the editor of the magazine Woman's Own to conduct a series of interviews with teenagers of the time. The study revealed teenagers who "sleep together before they are married, don't believe in God, dislike the Queen and don't respect parents", which was deemed unsuitable for the magazine because it was a new phenomenon. Deverson, in an attempt to save her research, worked with Hollywood correspondent Charles Hamblett to create a book about the study. Hamblett decided to name it Generation X.[2]
In 1976, the phrase was picked up as the name of a punk rock band featuring Billy Idol, which released three albums before disbanding in 1981.[3] However the term Generation X was used to describe the early British punks more generally with their nihilism, rejection of earlier generations' values and the feeling that they were a lost generation that meant nothing to society, and vice versa. The term Generation X was later popularized in 1991 when Douglas Coupland's popular novel Generation X: Tales for an Accelerated Culture was published. Coupland took the X from Paul Fussell's 1983 book Class, where the term "class Y" designated a region of America's social hierarchy, rather than a generation.[4] However, this term has transcended its roots in that country and expanded into other areas of the West.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_X
 
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Dennis Miller said:
It wouldn't have been more obvious if it were Ramzi El-Kaboom.

Suspects in thwarted bombing plot.

ALI, Abdula, Ahmed
DOB: 10/10/1980

ALI, Cossor
DOB: 04/12/1982

ALI, Shazad, Khuram
DOB: 11/06/1979

HUSSAIN, Nabeel
DOB: 10/03/1984

HUSSAIN, Tanvir
DOB: 21/02/1981

HUSSAIN, Umair
DOB: 09/10/1981

ISLAM, Umar
DOB: 23/04/1978

KAYANI, Waseem
DOB: 28/04/1977

KHAN, Assan, Abdullah
DOB: 24/10/1984

KHAN, Waheed, Arafat
DOB: 18/05/1981

KHATIB, Osman, Adam
DOB: 07/12/1986

PATEL, Abdul, Muneem
DOB: 17/04/1989

RAUF, Tayib
DOB: 26/04/1984

SADDIQUE, Muhammed, Usman
DOB: 23/04/1982

SARWAR, Assad
DOB: 24/05/1980

SAVANT, Ibrahim
DOB: 19/12/1980

TARIQ, Amin, Asmin
DOB: 07/06/1983

UDDIN, Shamin, Mohammed
DOB: 22/11/1970

ZAMAN, Waheed
DOB: 27/05/1984


From the BBC:
"Abdul Waheed, 21, was arrested at a house in Hepplewhite Close, High Wycombe. He had changed his name from Don Stewart-Whyte about six months previously, according to neighbours."




Congratulations MAGNUM!!! , you rolled your F16 to check the registration number on the tail of an Antonov and got shot down a 20mm cannon mounted obove the loading ramp.;)


If we profile, we need to do it smart. The next dumnchit little Islamic convert may not change his name so he can get through security easier.
 
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Actually, C-150ETOPS, my post said nothing about their ethnicity, just their religion. If you read my posts from other threads, I SPECIFICALLY exclude race from profiling and focus on muslims. You might still disagree with that, and that's fair. However, zingin' me for a white convert doesn't work.
 

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