To the Avantair guys/gals

[C425Driver]

FiveFootNuthin,

You need to stop putting so much faith in the rumor mill. Were you one of the people spreading the rumor about our doors closing on July 1?

There is absolutely no "150% of ground roll" runway requirement. The 150% thing was an idea that someone pitched to management (actually, his idea was 170% but the rumor mill distorted it). He then started telling people about his great idea and the rumor took off like wildfire.

I had a performance discussion yesterday with one of the CP's. The requirement is accelerate stop on the runway (just like the GOM says) or accerate go over the obsatcle (just like the GOM says). Perhaps you should read your GOM sometime. In my recurrent class a few weeks ago the DO reiterated the performance requirements out of the GOM and was very specific about it.

Because of Accelerate/Stop and Go issues I've changed departure airports or had to make fuel stops and there has NEVER been any repercussions over it. I've never been counseled or disciplined over it. When I tell the pax it's a safety issue they appreciated it.

I've never felt like my ticket was on the line here and I've never felt like I compromised safety with anything I've done.

Again, the 150% of ground roll is pure BS. So is the cowboy thing that you talk of.

 

[Geronimo4497]

FiveFootNuthin,

You need to stop putting so much faith in the rumor mill. Were you one of the people spreading the rumor about our doors closing on July 1?

There is absolutely no "150% of ground roll" runway requirement. The 150% thing was an idea that someone pitched to management (actually, his idea was 170% but the rumor mill distorted it). He then started telling people about his great idea and the rumor took off like wildfire.

I had a performance discussion yesterday with one of the CP's. The requirement is accelerate stop on the runway (just like the GOM says) or accerate go over the obsatcle (just like the GOM says). Perhaps you should read your GOM sometime. In my recurrent class a few weeks ago the DO reiterated the performance requirements out of the GOM and was very specific about it.

Because of Accelerate/Stop and Go issues I've changed departure airports or had to make fuel stops and there has NEVER been any repercussions over it. I've never been counseled or disciplined over it. When I tell the pax it's a safety issue they appreciated it.

I've never felt like my ticket was on the line here and I've never felt like I compromised safety with anything I've done.

Again, the 150% of ground roll is pure BS. So is the cowboy thing that you talk of.

Thanks for saving me a whole lot of typing. Gotta love that rumor mill...... :nuts:

 

[wacoflyr]

This was specifically addressed just recently. You need acc. stop or acc. go. Period. End of story. There are no other options. That is what the DO has stated. End of rumor.

Waco

 

[fivefootnuthin]

i'm not quoting "rumor mill" nor did i quote any rationale that i myself have not heard personally. And since part 25 aircraft require BOTH accel/go and accel/stop in their performance calculations, the standing rule of two out of three (meaning runway roll which is obvious, then take your pick of either accel/go OR accel/stop - which either one is LEAST restrictive) is just about as dumb.
And while I'm glad to hear that you've never had a call about a flight from scheduling, then the chief pilot and then possible GK and/or the DO with respect to making a trip non-stop, then kudos to you -- but others have, including me. THAT is also a fact. Any one who wants to test that theory, tell them on a questionable non-stop that since runway roll is obviously needed, the two parameters you want are accel/stop and accel/go -- see what happens.
Or better yet, question the next flight of four plus bags that is slated to go from that awesome little berm-crossed airport in Idaho to, lets say, LAX.
I appreciate your homer-esque side-chosing C425, but for you to say that the flight have never been pushed or that calls to crews have never been made makes me wonder whether or not you spend your time in the cockpit or in the office.
As I've said, it's a great airplane - and the guys are awesome on the line. And you are right -- PAX virtually never question a change in venue where safety is concerned, and once it's clear that the PAX agreed the subject is generally dropped by scheduling. But leave the kool-aid in the packet bro, because far too many guys with more time in this bird than you know how things get for a flight if the owner is big enough or the schedule is tight. The phone WILL ring -- and the spurs WILL jingle.

One last thing ...i have made NO posts regarding closing rumors. But since you like to live on this site, I'm sure you already know that.

 

[AftCG182]

Enough

Take it outside, guys. And by outside I mean the Company message board. This is NOT the place for this discussion.

 

[glasspilot]

deleted and moved to avantair private forum.

 

[fivefootnuthin]

3.5 yrs there ...i stand by my post.

That is all

 

[C425Driver]

Been here about the same amount of time...and I stand by my post.

 

[mainiac]

I sure hate singing the same old tune here, but..
it's sad how the Avantair threads seem to deteriorate into negativity,
but it's really pathetic to see it coming from within! I'll back Glass, Aft and 425 on this wholeheartedly! Save the operational "gripes" for the in-house forum! If you sh*t on your own dinner plate, it's your own breath that ends up stinkin'!

About 2.5 yrs, and I approve this message

 

[fivefootnuthin]

Wow maniac...did you really come up with that ALL by yourself?

I mean seriously...this is a FORUM, where one should (barring personal attacks or racist views obviously) feel free to express his or her thoughts. Having had more FO's than should be the case say to me after a fairly short time frame "um....do they really expect this to go this way?" I thought it relevant to point out to those expecting a more structured, disciplined set up ala 121 or NJA or SC that they can expect something less regarding procedure. My apologies if it offends your sensibilities, but having been here longer than 90% of those posting from this company, my take on it is just that....MY take, based on what I'VE dealt with. As far as in-house posting goes, never done it, never will. If you honestly think that keeping it "within the unit" as it were actually gets mgmts attention with respect to issues we've been dealing with, in some cases, for YEARS now, then make yourself feel better and have it.

 

[GSXR600]

Am I crazy, or does that sound crazy?

Hey HAMMER2,

That's a great picture of OBAMA where did u get it??
perhaps I can customize mine to make it look like yours:laugh:

 

[fivefootnuthin]

Is that a docked pic?? Obama used to smoke, thought maybe it was the real deal

 

[mainiac]

Wow maniac...did you really come up with that ALL by yourself?

I mean seriously...this is a FORUM, where one should (barring personal attacks or racist views obviously) feel free to express his or her thoughts. Having had more FO's than should be the case say to me after a fairly short time frame "um....do they really expect this to go this way?" I thought it relevant to point out to those expecting a more structured, disciplined set up ala 121 or NJA or SC that they can expect something less regarding procedure. My apologies if it offends your sensibilities, but having been here longer than 90% of those posting from this company, my take on it is just that....MY take, based on what I'VE dealt with. As far as in-house posting goes, never done it, never will. If you honestly think that keeping it "within the unit" as it were actually gets mgmts attention with respect to issues we've been dealing with, in some cases, for YEARS now, then make yourself feel better and have it.

Not sure what I "came up with, ALL by myself", probably my "Sh*t on you plate comment",I guess. My feelings in any business is that airing dirty laundry about your meal-ticket in public is a no-win situation. You're right, this is a public forum, but too often it becomes a rant page.
Secondly, I feel that the idea of "in-house posting:never done it-never will" lacks commitment to your livelihood. Participation in our company's growth, and operational policies, can only keep improving ops, and the benefits to us that go along with it.
I'm sorry to hear that you've experienced situations that you didn't want to deal with, or "pressure" about performance issues, but I have to say that in my 2-ish yrs as PIC here, that has never been the case when I worked all performance #'s out precisely.
So, sorry if I offended you personally, I don't mean to attack, or flame at people here, but I will stand by the idea that there is a better place to air "in-house" issues.
And, it's mainiac (you know, like the State)

 

[fivefootnuthin]

If you knew who I was, you wouldn't question my "commitment" or my willingness to "deal with things." I've done plenty "in house" and its safe to say that some of the very procedures and changes you and others enjoy were because of the few, like me, who weren't content with the way things were done. And I'll be the 1st to say that improvements have been made, positive ones, and that's good for everyone concerned.
But I would submit to you that public influence in forums like this has had as much impact as the very focused efforts of some who know what performance really means as a measure of safety. There's a reason why those in the office who used to spend notable amounts of time posing as pilots on this forum came up with the idea of an "in house" forum, that being to keep the impact of pilots who know things could/should be done better out of view and thus, some might argue, minimized.
Open debate is nothing to fear, and as I've stated before anyone who elects to work here should know what the realities of "two out of three" means. Potential new hires don't have the option of the "in house" forum, and pretending that issues regarding this have not and do not still arise does a disservice to them and the group as a whole.
Thats my opinion, and until things change, I will continue to voice it in all venues--as is my right.

 

[CherryBomb]

I was a Captain at Avantair and I left for another Fractional. We fly heavier jets that require all the performance numbers that the part 23 Piaggio does not. That being said, I DO NOT FEEL ANY MORE COMFORTABLE TAKING OFF IN AN AIRPLANE HERE THAN I DID AT AVANTAIR.

Performance numbers, weather and situation analysis are all the jobs of the crew. Lets face it, a monkey could fly an airplane. But only an experienced pilot can make good judgment calls. Have a backbone, and stand up to management if you genuinely feel that a situation is unsafe. Its all up to you! Yes, sometimes management/dispatch can ask you to do some pretty crazy stuff. But, often times they don't know any better. They don't have the perspective of being down in the trenches doing the dirty work that we the crews are. No one will ever intentionally try to endanger you, the passengers or the airplane.

If you as a pilot feel that the 2 out of 3 rule is unsafe, then don't do it. Get another job! Its really simple. Complaining on FI does no good.

Avantair was one of the best flying jobs I ever had. I will forever miss the Piaggio and the excelent pilot group. There are higher paying jobs out there. Lets face it, Avantair sells shares of 6 million dollar airplanes while other fractionals sell shares of 20+ million dollar airplanes. There is alot more money at other jobs, but to some, money isnt everything. I happen to be a bit greedy....


To any potential Avantair new hires: Avantair is a great place to work. Every employer has room for improvement, but overall the working environment is great. No one will ever force you to do anything remotely unsafe. The decision of being safe or unsafe is purely yours... Have fun, its why we do this, right?


One more thing, haven't you all ever heard of the old saying "never hang out your dirty laundry"?