To get typed, or not to that is the ?

[SWAwanabe]

I am set up to go and get my 737 type the end of next month. should I spend the money or keep it in the bank. How many people where hired with out types and how do other airlines look at you if the see that you have a 737 type.

 

[737dude]

The answer

How quickly do you want an interview at SWA?? Although there is never a guarantee--think of how many others may also be contemplating the same question, either currently furloughed or flying with another company trying to jump to the majors. There are very few games in town right now and the competition is stiff. Those with the type will get put ahead of those that have none--like it has always been.

Look at it this way--the education and job enhancement expense can be a tax write off and if you use an Equity Line or similar to fund it, that interest too is written off--so it is not a full $8000 that you are risking. The training that you will get will only enhance your aviation skills and knowledge of aircraft systems, etc.

Bottom line--how badly do you want to work for SWA?? If it is just another job application and possible interview for you then don't waste your money--because your attitude about the employment possibility will show through to the interviewers and will greatly diminish any hope of getting to the next level in the process of securing a class date.

 

[knelson]

No Tax Deduction

I would caution you about the tax deduction only because I am scheduled for the Oct. 6 class at Higher power and yesterday (Friday) asked my accountant if it would be deductible. He gave me the standard accountant response: you can deduct anything you want if you can afford the penalties and interest! In other words, no. He was explaining to me that the basic test is whether or not you meet the minimum requirements for the job. If you already meet these requirements and are trying to get a leg up on your competetion, whatever additional training you deduct is ligitimate. However, if you don't meet these minimum requirements (requirements to get HIRED, not interview), you cannot deduct them. With all that said, if you deduct it and get away with it for long enough, the statute of limitations will run out and you will have beat the system: good for you, not a chance I really want to take, I don't like the words penalty or interest. Someone please tell me if I need to get a new accountant, but this is the explination I was given. Please talk to yours before you miss out on a possible $8000 deduction!

Good lick with your application.

Kevin

 

[Bake]

I would get another accountant. All aviation attorneys and accountants I have spoken with have said that by all means write off the type rating. I did in 1999, never had a problem and I was active duty military.

 

[intel33]

The 737 type may be required at SWA (obviously your plan), but it is additonal training/education that could be considered for almost ANY professional flying job, so would NOT be a minimum requirement. My personal opinion, and I took the deduction. And using the GI Bill, I was reimbursed for half, and those monies I received were tax free!

 

[texanpilot]

If you have the money, getting typed would be the proper choice. I think it shows SWA that you are willing to do whatever it takes to be one of them. Plus where else can you turn 8 grand into 5 million while working for the best airline in the world. I got my type at HPA - best place. Then, wrote the entire expense off my 2002 taxes - continuing education. My accountant is very "proper" and had no problem writing it off. Lastly, with the ink still wet on the 737 type I got hired at another company. They did not even ask me why I had a 737 type. Of couse, they new. Good luck.

 

[HOUMAN]

I couldn't agree more with texan, intel and bake.
Knelson, you might want to consider getting a new accountant.
Oh, by the way, I have a good friend who got the type at HPA and was promtply hired by ATA a few months later. In my opinion, the "urban legend" of the type rating giving you a black mark is completely bogus.

 

[AJWick]

swawanabee

I definitely thinks its worth the while. No guarantees but it would look better on resume. Just one word of caution, if you are doing it for SWA....make sure you meet the other requirements as well. ie..1000 pic turbine.

good luck.

aj

 

[Tweetdrvr]

Not a tax expert, but..

There is also something in the tax code (according to Turbo Tax) about improving your knowledge/jobskills in your current job. So as a military dude, getting my MEI is not required but it enhances my pilot abilities, same too with the type rating. I agree with the others----DEDUCT IT!!

 

[capt_zman]

A buddy of mine (in the pool) went to lunch with LL a couple of weeks ago and specifically asked her about the upcoming hiring process. She said that everything is going to be competitively based and that a type rating doesn't necessarily mean that you are competitive.

Take this for what it's worth, but if I had it all to do over again, I would have kept the 8k in the bank.

 

[MLBWINGBORN]

Now that the type requirment has been lifted there really isnt any reason to get the type until after you get hired..

The type will be one part of the overall process and will not be some sort of show stopper if you dont have it on your application..

Mike

 

[Bill Nelson]

Ask the guys who interviewed prior to 9/11 and didn't have the type at the time. Some are still in the pool. Those guys have lost years of longevity and lots of seniority. Ask them if the type is worth getting prior to an interview.

While you are asking questions, ask those JB morons why they are looking to add more flight time to all of our days. "8 is enough". Didn't we all figure that out in the late 70's early 80's? I guess these nimrods didn't watch tv.

 

[TheDogsBollocks]

Type or no type?

I posted a reply to this matter on a similar thread on this site, but here's my say on the matter. If you have read the book "nuts" all about SWA there is a chapter that tells you their hiring philosophy regarding all their employee applicants.

"Hire for attitude- train for skill"

In regard to pilots, a type rating may move you up the line for the interview but if they don't like you they won't hire you. I know a pilot applicant who unsuccessfully interviewed the first time, bought a type rating and secured a second interview and was still unsuccessful, I feel really sorry for the guy.

I'll be keeping my money in my pocket until I get a job offer.

 

[Aplus9]

I would have to agree with Zman and Bollocks. I had a similar conversation with LL and came away with the same impression. I discussed it more on another similar thread.
I don't think anyone would fault you for not getting one. You just never know what's going to happen. I got hired post 9/11 without a type. I chose to hold on to the cash until I got word, due to the unusual world circumstances. The choice did delay my entering the pool, but because things have been so slow on the training side of things, it really made no difference for me if I would have entered the pool a few months earlier. But that was my situation, yours may be different, I'm sure.
Bottomline, you got to do what makes you (and any significant others) feel comfortable in these current times.

Best of luck.


Aplus

 

[Pig]

So it sounds like the previous 2 stack system is out now. No more preferential interviewing for those with types?

Is it likely SWA will clarify whether or not typed applicants will be interviewed first? That is the question those wondering whether it is worth being typed need answered. It's a big difference being in a stack of 3300 instead of 800 applicants hoping to be interviewed. No point in paying for the type if you aren't going to be interviewed before those without the type. I hope they make their policy clear soon for all those wondering whether or not to get typed!

 

[texanpilot]

Bullocks,
Also in "Nuts" it states that taking a crazy risk might have substantial rewards. That seems to be the way that SWA planted their cornerstone in aviation. I believe having the type and taking the risk not only gets you the interview faster, but will definetly help in the selection board. You never know. Good luck to all.

 

[TheDogsBollocks]

Texanpilot,

You indeed raise a very valid point, however financial, personal and the state of the aviation economy preclude me from taking such an undertaking of getting a type rating on the hope of getting an interview. A point I expect is also shared by many other interested SWA applicants.

As far as the hiring decision at SWA is concerned I would suspect that with the exception of a type rating seperating two identical candidates, the "nice guy" will always prevail!

I wonder how many great candidates SWA had missed out on in the past because of the no type no interview policy it used to have?

 

[Swerpipe]

To Type or Not to

I have talked to PD people over the last two years and they have never said that having a type makes you competitive enough for an interview.
They did say that having the "Southwest spirit", being able to fit into the company culture, having quality flight experience, leadership skills, and ATTITUDE!!!will get you into the company. For someone with flight experience ,# of type ratings, etc.. towards the lower end of the spectrum a type rating will probably be more significant than someone with 10 type ratings and lots of PIC 121 time. With people with similar qualifications, the type rating may be the factor that gets you called first. Just look at your numbers in the left column: Two military guys with about 2500, college degree, similar type of equipment and experience and one with the type rating... Well guess what, he may be called first. Are you OK with that?
The type rating however will help you answer the following questions during the interview: "Why do you want to work here", "Why Southwest?","Why should we hire you and not someone else?" "Why didn't you consider Southwest before?", "Are you only considering Southwest now that you are furloughed?" "Why and when you got the type rating?" Guys that are waiting for the employment to get the type may not be able to do as well when answering these questions but may be you are the smoothest talker, better than Tony Robbins and you will.
The last factor is that if you are typed and others aren't the day of the interview, those guys will have a few hundred numbers of seniority less than you, perhaps half a year with the speed of hiring. Is that what you are willing to sacrifice? I am typed so it doesn't matter but guys who aren't should think about that.
The sound of this thread is almost as if getting a type is bad investment but don't be decieved. Some of the folks that got the type and were hired may not know if they would have done as well in the interview without it. After all, they hire you for your attitude. Having a TYPE can make you appear yo have a great ATTITUDE about working for Southwest. Don't let anyone fool you...

 

[texanpilot]

Good points.
However, the type wont get you the job, but it will get you the interview provided you have the minimums. Even a complete moron can look fantastic on paper, then I am sure the People Dept will know real quick that pilot should go home. 8000 is a TON of money, but I believe if you are hell-bent on getting a job at SWA, there is really no reason not to get the type. Senoirity is everything. Period. The type enables you to get that provided SWA will hire you. Plus put yourself in the interviewers position - this candidate took 3 weeks out of his/her life and 8000 dollars to get the CHANCE to have a job here. That is what it is all about. And, if you get shot down, the rating never expires. It seems SWA is gonna hire for the next 6 years at least. 8000 dollars devided by 48 months means you need to save $170/month to get the type in 4yrs. Start now. Then if SWA hasnt hired you by then, get the type. Ya never know.

 

[TheDogsBollocks]

Texanpilot,

Thanks for your reply, I cannot disagree with any of the points that you make however, I am so poor that barring winning the lottery I am not gonna have $8000 to spend on a type so I am resigned to having to wait for better economic conditions and a sh*t load of luck!