TO CFI's

[qmaster3]

Just want to say thanks, you guys do get it through our

(students) thick, stubborn, skulls.



While doing a touch and go today with my A&P buddy. Full power was applied, and I shot right up in the air, glanced at my airspeed, down to 60, at 50/ft off the ground. Anyway when I retracted the flaps she climbed like a champ. Thank god it was a cold day. I asked my buddy if he was scared. His reply “only when you said OH F^%%”



At 80/hrs this was the first test of abnormal real world flight conditions, and training paid off.



Hats off the to CFII’s

 

[PaulThomas]

Be carefull out there.

 

[PC12Cowboy]

Qmaster....checklist checklist checklist...even on T&G's....Procedures are always the best way to avoid uh oh's...start now and always follow them

 

[falcon20driver]

While doing a touch and go today with my A&P buddy. Full power was applied, and I shot right up in the air, glanced at my airspeed, down to 60, at 50/ft off the ground. Anyway when I retracted the flaps she climbed like a champ. Thank god it was a cold day. I asked my buddy if he was scared. His reply “only when you said OH F^%%”

I thought I was the only one that ever did that.
Back when I was a student pilot with about 15 hours I did the same thing in a '61 172 on a solo flight doing a touch and go.

 

[flyifrvfr]

The way I teach a touch and go is upon landing flaps up. The throttle does not go to full until the flaps are retracted. This procedure prevents the student from taking off with the flaps still extended. The other reason I teach this is because if the flaps were to retract unevenly, we would be finding this out on the ground as opposed to in the air. The airplane would roll if the flaps were split.

 

[Kream926]

at my school we arnt allowed to do t & gos solo for that reason

 

[Superpilot92]

Had a student do this with me not to long ago in a SP 172 at night on a short runway? We touched down and before I knew what happened he punched it and we went almost straight up. I grabbed the plane and lowered the nose retracted the flaps by that time we were towards the end of the runway. I had never been there before and didn’t know whether there were power lines or trees or anything out in front of me. I can honestly say I have never been that worried in an airplane before. All the way up to 1000 feet I was nervous and was just hoping that we didn’t hit anything. I think it was Rockdale airport just west of College Station Texas. Survived it and it was learned from. Never get relaxed with your students it’s usually your best student that will kill you because that’s when most instructors let their guard down. Fly safe.

 

[qmaster3]

at my school we arnt allowed to do t & gos solo for that reason

We have to be PVT's before we can do them alone. I told my CFII today at an Inst lesson. He's the airport "geezer", and the chief pilot. I only lost a few pounds off the behind from the arse chewing. I need those from time to time

 

[akscott60]

Retract flaps, then give her gas. Its yet another mental checklist.

 

[mattpilot]

I did that at about 55 hours ..... in an unfamiliar airport that was only 30ft wide and 1800ft long.... with a big slope.

Scared the shiat outa' me - I definitely learned from that one.


I didn't shoot straight up into the air, but i did gain a little altitude, retractred flaps, came back down on the runway, rolled along on only the left main for a while and went otherwise all over the place. But i made it

God was with me that day, my friends

 

[minitour]

God was with me that day, my friends

You're friends with God???

Are you Mel Gibson?

-mini

 

[minitour]

Retract flaps, then give her gas. Its yet another mental checklist.

The 152 is
"F*in Hard To Fly"
Flaps
Heat (carb heat)
Trim
Firewall (it was the best I could think of)

-mini

 

[OrphicSeth]

Never get relaxed with your students it’s usually your best student that will kill you because that’s when most instructors let their guard down. Fly safe.

True this.

 

[Kream926]

i remember a few years back at RVS an OSU guy crashed. seen the whole thing from downwind. went around with full flaps, stalled and came back down from about 50 feet or so but in the oposite direction. only injury was a busted leg and a burst ego.

 

[mattpilot]

You're friends with God???

Are you Mel Gibson?

-mini

don't make me teach you grammar, my friend

 

[JonJohn82]

I did that at about 55 hours ..... in an unfamiliar airport that was only 30ft wide and 1800ft long.... with a big slope.

Scared the shiat outa' me - I definitely learned from that one.


I didn't shoot straight up into the air, but i did gain a little altitude, retractred flaps, came back down on the runway, rolled along on only the left main for a while and went otherwise all over the place. But i made it

God was with me that day, my friends

Sounds like Haskell. That airport suprised me at night.

 

[mattpilot]

nope... keystone

 

[Kream926]

nope... keystone

if its keystone in OK.....i love that place

and if not...that's some stank beer

 

[mattpilot]

yes its keystone in OK... i think the official name is Westport

 

[minitour]

deleted
​

 

[mattpilot]

derrrrr...I wanna be in the special olympics....derrrr

-mini




​

???/?

 

[minitour]

???/?

referencing Cartman...I have a picture of him in the scene where he says that from the episode Special Olympics.

His plot is to act retarded, gain entry into the special olympics, beat all the handicapped kids and win the $1,000 prize.

Deleted because I couldn't get the picture to show up as my avatar...

Reason:
I re-read what you typed and realized I read it wrong LOL Yes, I do need a grammmmmmar lesson LOL

-mini

 

[FR8FO]

The way I teach a touch and go is upon landing flaps up. The throttle does not go to full until the flaps are retracted. This procedure prevents the student from taking off with the flaps still extended. The other reason I teach this is because if the flaps were to retract unevenly, we would be finding this out on the ground as opposed to in the air. The airplane would roll if the flaps were split.

do you turn around and look to see if the flaps have come up evenly on the ground before taking back off?

 

[Flyin Tony]

I f'd up in a 150, doing T/G and full flaps down and the plane never got off the runway. I took off with full flaps in the comanche and it gets off in 200ft.

 

[bobbysamd]

Procedures

Just want to say thanks, you guys do get it through our
(students) thick, stubborn, skulls.

Some skulls are thicker than others. Just doing our job, though you probably learned far more from your incident alone than from your instructor hollering at you. Bet you won't repeat it.

Do make sure you're following your procedures. In a 172, etc., glance and make sure the flaps really went up. In Piper, the manually-operated Johnson bar flaps are fairly idiot-proof, but still check.

Finally, remember than any pilot certificate remains a license to learn.

 

[Ralgha]

The way I teach a touch and go is upon landing flaps up. The throttle does not go to full until the flaps are retracted. This procedure prevents the student from taking off with the flaps still extended. The other reason I teach this is because if the flaps were to retract unevenly, we would be finding this out on the ground as opposed to in the air. The airplane would roll if the flaps were split.

Just food for thought here, not saying your method is wrong. What if the pilot suddenly needs to do a go-around just as the tires hit the ground? Will the touch-and-go instinct lead them to waste valuable time retracting the flaps before going?

Personally I avoided doing touch-and-goes with students. I would do stop-and-goes. The time difference between that and a touch-and-go is minimal.

 

[Fly_Chick]

For my student's first solo, and the next few solo rides after that I have him/her do full stop taxi backs. This gives the student "time" to analyze what is going on. It allows them to do the "after landing" checklist and "pre-takeoff" checklists. It also gives them time to enjoy and experience what is happening by themselves.

I had a student who was on his second solo flight. Prior to his solo, I told him to have fun, mention to tower he was a "solo student pilot" and to do full stop taxi backs. The airport can get busy.

I was in the pattern with another a student and we had a 8 knot tailwind (tower did not yet switch runways). I heard the solo student asking for "touch and goes". After we both were on the ground later from our separate flights, I asked the solo student why he was doing "touch and goes" with a tailwind. He told me he was doing "full stop taxi backs".

Needless to say, I had a discussion with him as I was in the pattern also and heard everything that transpired.

 

[Fly_Chick]

I should also mention that on that same day, this particular topic on the message board was about two days old, so I had the solo student read it. Not sure what he took from it, yet I wanted to get my point across that the whole reason I do anything, or require anything, is for safety, I want to see him (and everyone else) successfully on the ground after each flight!

 

[nosehair]

Hey!, What if you have to do a go-around just as the tires are touching the ground with full flaps? I do touch-and-goes with manipulating the flaps at all possible configurations. On a gradually increasing level of difficulty, of course.

First, establish the Primacy Habit of: Flaps Up, Verify, Carb Heat In, Apply Power smoothly to transition from the landing roll to the take-off roll.

Then, Flaps Up from Full Down to 10 down to transition to take-off roll with some flaps, then flaps up at a safe altitude and airspeed.

Then, Full Throttle at touch down or just prior or just after with Full Throttle First, then Carb Heat Off, then Flaps up as appropriate depending on airplane performane and speed at the moment the pilot's hand can get to the flap control after application of all power in an emergency go-around or take-off.

Here, the process of "milking" the flaps up as you accelerate, on or off the runway in ground effect if no climb can be established, etc.

Basic pilot training stuff. Should be done before solo. Read the FAA Airplane Flying Handbook Chapter 8 Faulty Approaches and Landings. In every description of the various bad landings that one must be expected to encounter, ie, Floating, Ballooning, Bouncing, Porpoising, all end with the final advice in BIG, BOLD PRINT: "EXECUTE A GO-AROUND." Well, don't you think that those go-arounds are sometimes with full flaps?

 

[lawfly]

Ah, not so sure your instructor wants any connection to or credit for that incident. Did you retract all of the flaps at once? Don't answer that. Be safe.