To all that fly, or have flown the 1900

[chperplt]

I've noticed over the past two winters that when the temp at altitude gets in the -10 or colder range, the trim wheel becomes very difficult to move manually, with no movement from the electric trim.

I've written airplanes up for this and have been told that the grease on the trim cable has gone away and the metal cable has frozen to the actuator(s). As the temperature warms at lower altitudes, the trim starts to move again.

I've had this problem on many of our aircraft, so it's not an isolated case. I've also had this problem within a week of a trim service.

Has anyone else noticed this or is it limited to our lovely fleet??

 

[Buzo]

Our trim wheels get stiff also. We wrote them and they fixed them. The trim wheel is still stiff around -30 -40 but the electric normally works.

 

[CitationLover]

whats funny is 172's do this also......

 

[Cardinal]

I've noticed the stiffness, and our fleet has had a few instances of the trim rigging freezing entirely at altitude. Brute force and a descent usually fixes it.

Recently a captain complained to maintenance control about a trim wheel that was extremely stiff at any temerature. Mx Control said that it wasn't a problem, it's just that they had run out of the specified grease and were using the wrong type for a little while (!!! It is amazing what they'll confess to, does a certain MD-80 rolling over into the ocean ring any bells?).

 

[WorldSeries]

this happen to me a few times when i flew the 1900. takeoff with a wet runway in the winter climb to very cold air and sometime the trim can became frozen or at least it felt like it since you couldnt move it..then when you descended if unfroze?????? go figure

 

[AceCrackshot]

All the time in Montana...plus I had high speed elevator shimmy in flight...sporty stuff.

Like my friend said, the 1900 fleet is aging both rapidly and en masse. All these problems were there in our C models two years ago, but we had a pretty good relationship with our maint. troops who headed alot of problems off at the pass. However, we probably didn't do too many favors for everyone else by not reporting what are (in hindsight) airframe specific issues.

 

[NuGuy]

Hiya Chperplt,

Man, given the nature of trim malfunctions in general and the BE-1900 problems in particular lately, any sort of trim problem for me would be an "airplane's not going to move until its fixed to my satisfaction" issue. I don't care if it's BFE at 0400.

You are messing around with something very, very serious. Even if it is just frozen, you are causing all kinds of stress, wear, moisture and tension issues. Thing is, you don't know what the problem is, and it could be masked by something else.

Uh uh....no way, fix it right or its parked, period.


My $ 0.02...

Best,
Nu

 

[Kansan]

Write it up! Nothing worst that dodging TS at altitute, while at the same time having to overcome a frozen trim scenero. Just more thing to have to worry about. Please don't pass that ordeal on the next crew to accept the aircraft. Just because it will free itself up a lower altitude. doesn't make it ok. Mx needs to purge that moisture and regrease it.

The main point is ... If it ain't right, get it fixed.

 

[chperplt]

For all those who have their panties in a wad, I did say I've written airplanes up for this.

My safety is quite important to me, thanks..

 

[NuGuy]

Hiya Chperplt,

Didn't mean to come across that way...but written up is one thing, written up and fixed is another.

I'm sure you did everything you could. Hopefully the crews after you did the same. At every outfit I've been at, the unwritten rule is that if one CA refuses the AC for a MX problem, no one else touches it until it is fixed.

Best to you,
Nu

 

[chperplt]

At every outfit I've been at, the unwritten rule is that if one CA refuses the AC for a MX problem, no one else touches it until it is fixed.

Only if that were the case here....

 

[Britpilot]

I flew the 1900 for three years in CLE. I did see this problem a few times and was told that it was due to water freezing on the cable. I was usually able to restore trim by rocking the manual trim back and forth until it freed up.

 

[chperplt]

I was usually able to restore trim by rocking the manual trim back and forth until it freed up.

Until it freed up or snapped.... How much tension is required on a frozen cable before it breaks?

 

[CA1900]

Good question. I've had the steel cable in the cabin door (the one that turns the camlocks) snap on a cold morning in Presque Isle while trying to close the door. That was a little inconvenient.

I shudder to think what a snapped trim cable would do. I'm not sure how much thicker (if at all) that cable is versus the one in the door.

 

[avoidingmyboss]

I fly a citation we had the same problem. It took Cessna almost 2 years to figure it out. I believe we had bad trim actuators

 

[chperplt]

Since we all agree there is a problem, how do we go about getting it fixed? Writing up airplanes does nothing to solve the greater issue, that a fleet wide problem exists.

 

[Britpilot]

Until it freed up or snapped.... How much tension is required on a frozen cable before it breaks?

Don't know. just telling you how I freed it. Never had one snap,you?

 

[belchfire]

Well, one thing that would probably
get it fixed fleetwide is if on a cold,
dark and stormy winter morning all
of the airplanes had this problem
in the outstation.

With all of the suspicious things that
have been going on with trims on those
kites lately I can't believe that mx is
letting anything even slightly wrong
get out the door!

 

[NuGuy]

Hiya chperplt

>>Since we all agree there is a problem, how do we go about getting it fixed? Writing up airplanes does nothing to solve the greater issue, that a fleet wide problem exists.<<

You are incorrect. Writing up the airplanes WILL solve the greater issue. Believe me when I say when enough airplanes are parked in BFE due to uncorrected discrepancies, the company will come up with a solution. The FAA does not like to see weeks and weeks of uncorrected discrepancies, and uncorrected FLIGHT CONTROL issues makes them see red.

If a fleet wide problem exists, its up to the manufactuerer and/or your airlines engineering department to come up with a solution. Our duty ends when we refuse to fly an aircraft and document the discrepancy. The PIC is responsible to ensuring the aircraft is in airworthly condition, and to document maintenence discrepancies. It is the OWNER/OPERATORS responsibility for maintaining the aircraft's airworthiness.

Make sure everyone writes up the problem, and that there is as much detail in the write up as possible. Park the airplane if it's not fixed. That is YOUR call.

By the way, a flight control malfunction or failure is an immediate report item to the NTSB. It is the owner/operator's responsibility to do this. If they don't, thats a violation of NTSB 830, and they take that very, very seriously.

Sorry if I am preachy about this, but this is important stuff.

Best,
Nu

 

[jegermeister]

Anybody think of calling their POI?

 

[Flyairjason]

Yeah right!

Hey guys!
Around that place, calling the POI will most certainly get you fitted for a concrete burlap sack... At the very least, you'll be reminded that you wont be upgraded if you've ever given the company any sort of flack. Besides, it wont make any difference... To them, these things are luxury liners, and I advise you guys to never ever tell management otherwise. When I did, they advised me that the things I had to say were "without merit" (and I put it really nicely too!) and expedited my two weeks notice of resignation... By two weeks!
I had a nice two week paid vacation though.

 

[jobear]

Our POI encouraged(sp) us to write up ANY and ALL flight control problems or Potenttial problems with any Beech we touch. He also told me that nation wide they are looking mighty hard at every B-1900 flying.

Fly Safe
Jobear

 

[Data]

Here's some relief for those affected...

http://www.iasa.com.au/folders/Safety_Issues/FAA_Inaction/colganair-2.html

http://www.iasa.com.au/folders/Breaking_News/hotoffthepress/beech1900DPitchFailure.html