To all mesa pilots

[B1900DFO]

Bean,
Just to expand on what the previous post stated: a future situation with AirWis, ACA, etc. would be vastly different in that their respective managements would be unable to threaten them with shutting down the operation if they did not match your wages/workrules. The WO's were in the unfortunate position of having to take 8% paycuts or be phased out completely and replaced by a slew of contract carriers. I hope you can appreciate why pilots who have made carreers at the WO's hold such resentment towards the contract carriers. Once freedom starts taking what you consider to be "your flying" then I think you'll understand where the Wo's are coming from.

For what it is worth I consider the WO's to be jointly responsible for the current situation because they did not have the foresight to fight for any meaningful scope clause in the previous contract. That would have prevented management from farming out more than a set portion of flying to the likes of Mesa.

Once again best of luck on getting a great contract. It would really improve the landscape of the regional industry. I hope you guys don't settle for something sub-standard in exchange for empty promises from JO.

 

[LearLove]

"For what it is worth I consider the WO's to be jointly responsible for the current situation because they did not have the foresight to fight for any meaningful scope clause in the previous contract"

Our scope was imbedded in our furlough protection we fought so hard for and now don't have.

 

[Concierj]

Some observations....

Mesa (YV) is operating under their first ever ALPA contract which was acquired in 1996. All first contracts are bad. When the contract was introduced, (YV) was several different airlines with "separate" seniority lists owned and acquired by what is now known as the Mesa Air Group. (Mountain West Airlines, Liberty Express Airlines, Florida Gulf, Air Midwest, and Desert Sun Division.) Desert Sun was flying F-70s of which the pilots were "Company" boys. The ALPA contract combined seniority lists of all the carriers into "One List" and 2 operating certificates (Air Midwest and YV) The "One List" was enticing because it allowed pilots of nonjet airlines the opportunity to fly Desert Sun's and any additional acquired jets. This was during the beginning phase of the RJ introduction into the airline industry. Mesa's contract, at the time it was signed, was, for the most part, industry standard. The majority of YV's flying was 1900's in 1996. (See part 135 work rules) After the 121 transition, Mesa has significantly expanded its Jet operation, dwindled its 1900 and EMB-120's, and remained constant at the DHC-8 level. They are still operating under the 96 contract except for one 1 pay raise to industry standard in 00.

There will be no Jets 4 Jobs vote at Mesa any time soon. Mesa ALPA's major concern is scope and maintaining the integrity of "One List" . (IE no separate Freedom Airlines list) Until the Freedom flying is captured, and the CC Air pilots are integrated as per the 2000 seniority agreement between CCA and YV ALPA, J4J is not an option. JO is trying to make it one to bad face ALPA. YV has not acquired any additional "new" flying (minus Frontier)and will not while in negotiations. Freedom CRJ-700's are on a 1 for 1 swap with YV CRJ-200's. With no additional flying, furloughs are to be anticipated at YV to offset Freedoms growth until a new contract is reached. YV management has also implied that a YV strike will cripple U and force them into Chapter 7 resulting in a 60% loss of YV business.

Mesa's goals for the next contract are: to bring it up to and maintain industry standard with annual adjustments, scope, and quality of life issues.

JO has no intention of letting go fo his "Freedom" non-union airline. It's his baby and he has total control over it.

Sh$$ty time for all everywhere.

 

[BoeingBaller]

Wo, Mesa

Fact of the matter is all of this back and forth scew you crap will get niether side anywhere. What we need to do from here on out is just raise the bar at the regional level no matter who you work for. Not only with pay but contract perks as well. A lot of the reson that crap passed at the WO s was becuase there are a lot of senior guys that just did not want to rock the boat with the theat of liquidation so close to the end of the road for them. Which I thought sucks, but what can you do here we are now pick up the ball and run.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

Freedom Fighters

What I got in the last two days from direct face to face conversations with a couple of YV Mesa Freedom Fighters is this.. Single Carrier status to be ruled by the NMB within a week. The Case for Freedumb is STRONGER than the case for CC Air and the NMB just turned down Mesa's request for appeal on the previous CC Air ruling. (what, did anybody think this wouldn't happen?)

Once we have the single carrier status, this prevents Freedumb from running off and starting their own union or some horseshpit that would legally let them stay seperate. Single carrier forces freedum to be represented by ALPA. One seniority list and one contract will come through continued negotiations that will be wrapping up soon. I was told less than 6 months. But I am still skeptical although leaning to the hopeful side.

As long as contract negotiations dont break down, and as long as the Mesa pilots ratify, and ALPA signs the new contract with 700/900 pay rates (yes thats more than a couple of if comes) we wont be worrying about furloughs at Mesa. I also have spoken with Orenstien who told me to my face he WILL give us our contract just to prove a point, because he is sure ALPA will not sign it if it includes CRJ 900 flying. He says when ALPA refuses to sign our new contract everybody will know he is not full of $hit.

Right.

Meanwhile the flogging of freedscum continues. I have heard actual profanity on PHX ground this past week. I was fairly certain it came from a HP crew on same freq. The blocking and name calling is getting intense. I cant see how anybody would stay in a freedong cockprickpit for too long. Personally I think it is a safety issue to block up frequencies. I draw the line at just giving them the finger and fist treatment.

I got to ride on freedumb this week PHX-LAX while going home and made sure to give the two manly FA's and both pilots a heavy helping of grade A $hit. I thanked the pilots for keeping my seat warm and made sure they knew I thought they were real fricking heros. They were actually HAPPY I stopped in to say hi. (Thank you sir may I have another??) Most people just ignore them. So, make a freedom pilots day it what I say. Thank one for being such a hero and thank the hunky coksugging FA too.

 

[surplus1]

Re: Freedom Fighters

What I got in the last two days from direct face to face conversations with a couple of YV Mesa Freedom Fighters is this.. Single Carrier status to be ruled by the NMB within a week. The Case for Freedumb is STRONGER than the case for CC Air and the NMB just turned down Mesa's request for appeal on the previous CC Air ruling. (what, did anybody think this wouldn't happen?)

Once we have the single carrier status, this prevents Freedumb from running off and starting their own union or some horseshpit that would legally let them stay seperate. Single carrier forces freedum to be represented by ALPA. One seniority list and one contract will come through continued negotiations that will be wrapping up soon. I was told less than 6 months. But I am still skeptical although leaning to the hopeful side.

You make some interesting points that I think have a lot of validity. I believe you will get the single carrier status that is being sought after. When you do, Freedom will be represented by the union (ALPA).

This is exactly why I think that your so-called "flogging of Freedom pilots" was and is a huge mistake. By going to Freedom voluntarily, Mesa pilots could have helped to facilitate the single carrier ruling by the NMB. If that didn't work you could have easily organized Freedom and joined the union anyway. At the same time, you could have avoided ailienation of a group of people, all of whom will ultimately wind up within your ranks.

It is not wrong for you to object to the creation of an alter ego airline on your property. However, the strategy used to fight it is highly questionable and, IMO, ill advised.

As long as contract negotiations dont break down, and as long as the Mesa pilots ratify, and ALPA signs the new contract with 700/900 pay rates (yes thats more than a couple of if comes) we wont be worrying about furloughs at Mesa. I also have spoken with Orenstien who told me to my face he WILL give us our contract just to prove a point, because he is sure ALPA will not sign it if it includes CRJ 900 flying. He says when ALPA refuses to sign our new contract everybody will know he is not full of $hit.

It is left to be seen what ALPA will do if your new contract includes the CL-700 and 900. What happens at America West, where ALPA is currently trying to prevent Mesa from flying this equipment will be a factor. Also, the new strategy of ALPA at USAirways will be another major factor. I'm sure you know that ALPA is currently attempting to modify the restructuring agreement in a way that would permit the aircraft that ALPA now defines as "large small jets" to be flown at the "contract carriers".

However, you can, IMO, expect this to come with a requirement that the "large small jets" are to be flown by USAirways pilots. In other words, they will attempt to force Jets for Jobs down your throats once more. You are being used as pawns, both by the Company and the union.

If that move is successful, Woerth will sign your contract. There is no reason for him NOT to do that as long as those aircraft are flown by "mainline pilots". I must ask you, what is the difference if the 70 & 90 seaters are not flown by Freedom pilots, but instead they are flown by U pilots? How many of them will Mesa pilots get to fly? Don't be surprised if you see the America West pilots attempt a similar maneuver/strategy.

Hopefully you (Mesa pilots) will NOT agree to abrogate your seniority in favor of pilots from another airline. If you agree to Jets for Jobs, that's exactly what you'll be doing.

 

[Freight Dog]

Surplus,

We've had a couple of discussions before, and I am curious... what exactly is wrong with AWA pilots blocking 90 seat RJ's flown under *THEIR* code in *THEIR* colors at CONTRACT carriers?

I hear you Comair boys aren't too happy about Chautauqua taking your MCO base and doing DCI flying.

You will claim that Comair is still expanding... GREAT.
You will also claim that you went on strike to get parity in pay.. GREAT, I applaud you for that.

My question is... when your flying slowly starts getting chipped away by *contract* carriers flying your old routes at slave-labor cost, are you not gonna try to prevent it especially given the fact that you've walked the line for 89 days trying to get rid of the slave labor wages at your airline?

Looking forward to your response...

 

[got_jumpseat?]

Re: Re: Freedom Fighters

You make some interesting points that I think have a lot of validity. I believe you will get the single carrier status that is being sought after. When you do, Freedom will be represented by the union (ALPA).

This is exactly why I think that your so-called "flogging of Freedom pilots" was and is a huge mistake. By going to Freedom voluntarily, Mesa pilots could have helped to facilitate the single carrier ruling by the NMB. If that didn't work you could have easily organized Freedom and joined the union anyway. At the same time, you could have avoided ailienation of a group of people, all of whom will ultimately wind up within your ranks.

It is not wrong for you to object to the creation of an alter ego airline on your property. However, the strategy used to fight it is highly questionable and, IMO, ill advised.


Nah, these guys that went are going to try and argue they saved the company but they backstabbed us. We didn't need any of them to go to prove our case for single carrier. Freedom could have hired off the street 100% and we still would have gotten single carrier. We have always said Mesa can buy or start as many certificates as they want as long as we get to fly the airplanes with one contract and one seniority list.


It is left to be seen what ALPA will do if your new contract includes the CL-700 and 900. What happens at America West, where ALPA is currently trying to prevent Mesa from flying this equipment will be a factor. Also, the new strategy of ALPA at USAirways will be another major factor. I'm sure you know that ALPA is currently attempting to modify the restructuring agreement in a way that would permit the aircraft that ALPA now defines as "large small jets" to be flown at the "contract carriers".

However, you can, IMO, expect this to come with a requirement that the "large small jets" are to be flown by USAirways pilots. In other words, they will attempt to force Jets for Jobs down your throats once more. You are being used as pawns, both by the Company and the union.

If that move is successful, Woerth will sign your contract. There is no reason for him NOT to do that as long as those aircraft are flown by "mainline pilots". I must ask you, what is the difference if the 70 & 90 seaters are not flown by Freedom pilots, but instead they are flown by U pilots? How many of them will Mesa pilots get to fly? Don't be surprised if you see the America West pilots attempt a similar maneuver/strategy.

Hopefully you (Mesa pilots) will NOT agree to abrogate your seniority in favor of pilots from another airline. If you agree to Jets for Jobs, that's exactly what you'll be doing.

You made some timely and interesting points yourself, many of which I will bring up in other discussions and look into deeper. I can tell you this much, J4J while many things it does not abrogate Mesa pilots seniority numbers. I am yet decided on J4J. I do know one fact, J4J is the brainchild of none other than Andy Hughes, MEC chairman @ Mesa Airlines. This I know, it was designed as a bargaining tool for Mesa pilots to get scope, in exchange for USAir furloughed pilots to get back in the air, and Mesa Air Group to get some multi millions of additional revenue per year. At least this is how it being sold to us. We do not lose seniority with this deal, these USAir pilots go to the bottom of our seniority list and may only fly in the US Air system in the Jets allocated them only ABOVE the current flying now happening. I think we have 40 jets in the U system now. The way J4J is written up we will give one job to a USAir pilot for every NEW Mesa pilot job created in THEIR system only, and only in any ADDITIONAL flying. The 40 jets we now fly for them are not included, neither are the HPX or F9X jets or any of our turboprop flying. I am not defending it, just defining it. Like I said I am yet undecided on J4J. I will look into your concerns. I saw a press release yesterday that USAir suddenly wants some of our 70 seaters flown in their system. Us/them not sure really. I dont know what thats all about but this gets more interesting by the minute.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

Surplus,

We've had a couple of discussions before, and I am curious... what exactly is wrong with AWA pilots blocking 90 seat RJ's flown under *THEIR* code in *THEIR* colors at CONTRACT carriers?

I hear you Comair boys aren't too happy about Chautauqua taking your MCO base and doing DCI flying.

You will claim that Comair is still expanding... GREAT.
You will also claim that you went on strike to get parity in pay.. GREAT, I applaud you for that.

My question is... when your flying slowly starts getting chipped away by *contract* carriers flying your old routes at slave-labor cost, are you not gonna try to prevent it especially given the fact that you've walked the line for 89 days trying to get rid of the slave labor wages at your airline?

Looking forward to your response...

\

Is this what Island Air pilots do on rainy days in Hawaii? Check threads on Mesa Airlines contract negotiations? Doesn't Island Air give you enough flying or are the half days island hopping in 78 degree winter weather driving you all futless yet?

Nah brah I am just poking fun. I'm jealous, I wish I was in your seat. I should have gone last year when they called me. I'd be a DHC8 CA in Hawaii now. Looks like the waiting list at AQ is getting out of hand. I hear 1300 pilots updating their resumes regularly and the "short stack" in Peter Clark's office is down to just 50 with only 35 to be hired this year. **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**.

I am glad you are taking interest in Mesa and Freedom, what happens to us has ramifications to ALL PILOTS. Not just Mesa, or our codeshares. Dont worry, like I said before the buck stops here. We will not let this one get by us. If Freedom gets away with this what's to stop ANY OTHER airline from trying the same crap.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

i guess I should have said daaaam. Thats what got censored. Nothing else.