To all Mesa Hopefuls

[Regul8r]

To all the Mesa hopefuls, I have one question: Why? I would really like some insight here as to why someone would willingly choose Mesa. Some honest answers I have had in the past are 1) I'm already financially independant, and 2) They have a base near my home. Any insight to help enlighten a regular guy would be appreciated.

 

[Brasilia Flyer]

Who cares why someone might choose one carrier over another.

 

[dash8driver]

Who cares why someone might choose one carrier over another.

just a guess, but i would say that Regul8r does.





.

 

[BoDEAN]

To all the Mesa hopefuls, I have one question: Why? I would really like some insight here as to why someone would willingly choose Mesa. Some honest answers I have had in the past are 1) I'm already financially independant, and 2) They have a base near my home. Any insight to help enlighten a regular guy would be appreciated.

Upgrade times are low. 2 yrs on the jet, sooner on the Dash 8. All about the PIC for people my friend.

 

[airspeedsalive]

How about you need a job, fire off a bunch of resumes, and the Mesa's the first place that calls for an interview and offers a you a job? Makes sense to me.

 

[cale42]

I'll take a shot at this one as someone who has my fingers crossed for a successful interview with them on Tuesday.

1. They offer lots of bases that are desirable.
2. They fly a nice variety of equipment
3. Pay is not nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be.. lets compare it to say Skywest.. Mesas first year pay is actually better than Skywest, and a 3 yr CRJ capt at Mesa makes 2 bucks an hour less than the same guy at Skywest.
4. Upgrades are fast... Turbine PIC is the golden ticket in the early stages of an aviation career.
5. They are a profitable company.
6. They show a desire for expansion and variety in their business plan that will likely continue to keep them a profitable company.
7. Profitable companies don't furlough.
8. See 7 again.. thats a biggie.
9. I have friends there that truly like it.. their opinions mean more to me then what I read on anonymous message boards.
10. From a personal standpoint I don't really want to fly single pilot night freight.
11. Regardless of what posted minimums may be it is difficult to get an airline job as an 1100/100 hour CFI, so I have to have some flexibility.

Hope all this helps.

cale

 

[eaglefly]

I'll take a shot at this one as someone who has my fingers crossed for a successful interview with them on Tuesday.

1. They offer lots of bases that are desirable.
2. They fly a nice variety of equipment
3. Pay is not nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be.. lets compare it to say Skywest.. Mesas first year pay is actually better than Skywest, and a 3 yr CRJ capt at Mesa makes 2 bucks an hour less than the same guy at Skywest.
4. Upgrades are fast... Turbine PIC is the golden ticket in the early stages of an aviation career.
5. They are a profitable company.
6. They show a desire for expansion and variety in their business plan that will likely continue to keep them a profitable company.
7. Profitable companies don't furlough.
8. See 7 again.. thats a biggie.
9. I have friends there that truly like it.. their opinions mean more to me then what I read on anonymous message boards.
10. From a personal standpoint I don't really want to fly single pilot night freight.
11. Regardless of what posted minimums may be it is difficult to get an airline job as an 1100/100 hour CFI, so I have to have some flexibility.

Hope all this helps.

cale

Actually, it's really simple....................

It's because pilots especially are more concerned with themselves first and principle about eighth.

When they get their COMM-INST-ME ratings they'll look at a 172 and then a shiny RJ and say............"like, dude......I'll fly one of those for free.......like it's totally rad and I can get laid by chicks too !......." or something to that effect.

They're young, self-absorbed and NO NOTHING about the history of the airline pilot profession and why we are at where we're at............couldn't care less either, cause if they can be a captain at 25, "scoring chicks" on the side and practicing to bulls*#t a major interviewer at what professionals they are (with ipods, backpacks and moussed spiky hair) they can land a major job with 2/3's the former pay, slow upgrades, RJ schedules and no pension.

But hey dudes......................think about all those new hot chicks !!!!!!!!!!

Who needs a lucerative paycheck, eh ?

My two other side businesses pay 2.5 times what my flying job does and I'm topped out at six figures for flying alone.

No more.

This industry is the future for the Ralph Cramden's of the world. When I came out of college in the mid 80's, the airline industry still was something to be proud of...............how times change.

Party on, new homies................you gonna be work'in so hard, you can't be chillin at the crib and bangin ho's.

 

[ultrarunner]

eafly fly hit the nail on the head........duuuuuude....

 

[cale42]

I'll grant eagle that there are sadly a lot of young pilots out there like that.

However there are a lot of us who also recognize that the regionals are a necessary stepping stone to where we want our careers to be eventually.

I happen to be 26, have no interest in "scoring chicks" have clean cut unmoussed hair, no Ipod and a professional flight bag.

However to land a job at a major or a good corporate gig I need turbine time.. which I can get at the regionals.

I also happen to feel that the majors are still a pretty good gig, when you compare them not to what they were formerly but to what the rest of the working world is like.

cale

 

[lowlycfi]

Over/under on how many pages this thread will go?

 

[Rip Vanwinkle]

Blaming mesa pilots for the state of the profession is hysterical. ALPO and the sainted Major Airline Kaptains Klub got used to working 10 days a month and making six figures. When deregulation hit, they sold their flying to the regionals so they wouldn't have to give up their golf game, porsche, and three martini lunch. Then, predictably, airlines started using more and more "regional" pilots to transport people, because they were poor dreamers hoping to join the Kaptains Klub and were correspondingly willing to "pay their dues" by getting paid and treated like crap. This pattern continued for years. Even today, scope is slowly but steadily being eroded, and Emperor Duane "Nero" Woerth and his Klub are fiddling while the profession burns to the ground. Because at least THEY have still got THEIRS.

This is the example the greybeards who bitch and moan about how the "kids" are "ruining the industry" SET for those same kids. The scabs at CAL are still flying. GoJets is a union carrier, now. TSA and Mesaba guys can do all the pamphleteering and good deeds they like, they're still getting bent over the rail and hammered. Where is ALPO? Where are their "fraternal brothers" who know so much about what jobs they should and shouldn't take?

This is the example the previous generation has set for the gel-haired, ipodded, hatless, chick-banging riddle-aces of today. And yet you wonder why they want to chase the turbine PIC and eat ramen noodles instead of hang out in the right seat at a "respectable" regional which ALPO will allow to be sent down the crapper the second the lifestyle of the Kaptain's Klub is threatened?

I'm 30. And I'm a freight pilot. But if I were a 23 year old spikey haired Mesa FO, I know exactly where I'd tell you to shove your supposed "ethics". You want the profession to be saved? Lead by example.

PS. 15/7 on the spread.

 

[svcta]

As long as J.O. has people interviewing he's paying them too much. Disgusting. Everything else aside, there was a toilet paper dispenser in our crew room in PHL(when I was @ the airlines, I didn't work for MESA) that had "MESA CONTRACTS" written on it. No only was that hilarious, but pretty much true. That's got to be one of the worst contracts I've ever heard of(the things I was told from their crews).

There's more to it than pay, my man. Take a look at how badly they can get you on QOL.

I just thought of a couple of names for cool regional documentaries:

"Dude, where's my ERJ?"

"Harold and Kumar go to MESA"

Man, I'm feelin funny today.

 

[Regul8r]

For those that posted honest responses, thanks.

 

[greg52083]

Over/under on how many pages this thread will go?

100 bucks on over 4

Okay, here we go another Mesa bashing session. I already got popcorn ready for this one. You probably come home from your trips and beat your dog too.

 

[eaglefly]

Blaming mesa pilots for the state of the profession is hysterical. ALPO and the sainted Major Airline Kaptains Klub got used to working 10 days a month and making six figures. When deregulation hit, they sold their flying to the regionals so they wouldn't have to give up their golf game, porsche, and three martini lunch. Then, predictably, airlines started using more and more "regional" pilots to transport people, because they were poor dreamers hoping to join the Kaptains Klub and were correspondingly willing to "pay their dues" by getting paid and treated like crap. This pattern continued for years. Even today, scope is slowly but steadily being eroded, and Emperor Duane "Nero" Woerth and his Klub are fiddling while the profession burns to the ground. Because at least THEY have still got THEIRS.

This is the example the greybeards who bitch and moan about how the "kids" are "ruining the industry" SET for those same kids. The scabs at CAL are still flying. GoJets is a union carrier, now. TSA and Mesaba guys can do all the pamphleteering and good deeds they like, they're still getting bent over the rail and hammered. Where is ALPO? Where are their "fraternal brothers" who know so much about what jobs they should and shouldn't take?

This is the example the previous generation has set for the gel-haired, ipodded, hatless, chick-banging riddle-aces of today. And yet you wonder why they want to chase the turbine PIC and eat ramen noodles instead of hang out in the right seat at a "respectable" regional which ALPO will allow to be sent down the crapper the second the lifestyle of the Kaptain's Klub is threatened?

I'm 30. And I'm a freight pilot. But if I were a 23 year old spikey haired Mesa FO, I know exactly where I'd tell you to shove your supposed "ethics". You want the profession to be saved? Lead by example.

PS. 15/7 on the spread.

Which was my point exactly......................every man for himself.

 

[Kenny]

Ok,

I've got a couple of questions for you, seeing as you have it all worked out:

Firstly, do you really want to work for someone or for that matter a company, that has such complete and utter contempt for it's employees?

Secondly, while they may have a better first year rate than Skywest, I'm sure that Skywest newbies have a FAR better QOL, at least get more than 8 days off a month and actually get paid for their work. I've yet to see a Skywest pilot look as pi$$ed off, beaten down or unhappy as I've seen some Mesa pilots.

If you're ok with that, then go ahead, I'm sure that first year will be a blast.

 

[CubanSmoker]

I'll take a shot at this one as someone who has my fingers crossed for a successful interview with them on Tuesday...


7. Profitable companies don't furlough.
8. See 7 again.. thats a biggie.


cale

Um, take a look at Mesaba. Profitable companies DO furlough. We went from gowing 15-23% to losing almost half of our existing fleet in 1 year.

 

[cale42]

I certainly don't claim to have it all figured out.. and I apologize if I in any way made it sound like that. I just gave some of the reasons I am applying and would work for Mesa.

I don't currently work for an airline so I can't intelligently speak to what any airline is like.

I can say though, that at this point in my career, I need to do some kind of flying other than another 1000 hours of stalls and steep turns in a Skyhawk.. I don't feel that enhances my resume.

For me, when push comes to shove I would like to be based out of Denver, so in order I applied to Horizon and was told they had more qualified candidates to interview, I applied to Skywest and had a bad day, that leaves Lakes and Mesa. No disrespect to Lakes.. but Mesa is my next choice as the pay is better and there are more opportunities when comparing the two.

So I don't have it all figured out at all.. but that is my current line of thinking, which is what the original poster asked.

cale

 

[greg52083]

Skywest has no east coast bases, so its not ideal for everyone. This year is still tough, lots of change and things to be worked out still. Take any job you can find that gives 121/135 experience, and see how things play out over the next couple of months. Nice thing about being young is you still have time to change where you’re at. Mergers are defiantly possible over the next couple of years, esp. in the regional industry. One caution is that Mesa is coming up on contract negations next year, and it will be getting real dirty. A lot of Mesa pilots are out for blood and a strike prob. will be a 50/50 chance.

 

[Kenny]

cale 42,

Sorry there buddy, wasn't trying to beat you up. But until people realise that Mesa is a contemptable place to be and stop going there, it will never change.

Think long and hard before you decide to go there. If you want to consider yourself as an airline pilot then it is only fair that you be treated as a professional by the company that you work for. That will not happen at Mesa and you not only deserve better, you should demand better.

There are 2 things I can guarantee; the upgrade never happens as quickly as you think it will and flying a jet will become less important as you start wondering how to pay your bills.

 

[cjs]

Which was my point exactly......................every man for himself.

Did you even read what he said? Old farts like you are just as much to blame as those SJS babies. You make over 300k/year and you didn't pick up on that? What's the world coming to ...

 

[eaglefly]

Did you even read what he said? Old farts like you are just as much to blame as those SJS babies. You make over 300k/year and you didn't pick up on that? What's the world coming to ...

"old farts"...........LOL

I'm not much past 40 (look mid-high 30's), have all my hair, teeth and weight proportional to height. Still enjoy Pink Floyd and Urge Overkill, etc.

But to some of the kids today, that IS old !

Thats how myopic their view is. It's the "E" generation (for Entitlement) and they'll have to accept the new low standards of the airline pilot profession, for all the old farts are collecting as much as they can and leaving the scraps to the kids.

I guess nothing wrong with it, as apparently plenty are perfectly happy there. Johnny O. is being made a millionaire over and over again on the backs of slavewage suckers. Heck they're even lining up to PAY to make him a multimillionaire with that college scam.

But seriously, I'd go for the chicks 'cause that's about all there is left.

 

[cjs]

I don't think they feel entitled to anything. They see something they think they want, and throw whatever they've got at it to make it happen. If anything, the "E" stands for "expedient". Sometimes paying your dues really is the best way, for personal enrichment .. although at the time it might seem like a waste. Regarding "low standards", its amusing to see how unions have really screwed over the young 'uns. The legacy unions held the line, and continue to do so. Those pilots are priced way out of what supply and demand would dictate, and as such there is a line stretching around the block with kids ready to sell their left nut for a shot at those jobs. Obviously there is a pricing problem here .. are pilots who fly larger equipment really that much more valuable than someone flying a dash or RJ? Just for sh!ts and giggles, I'd like to see what young pilots would earn a parallel universe where no unions exist.

 

[jobear]

I think that you should take what-ever job you want where-ever you want, why you ask? CAUSE FVCK what anyone thinks of me or my job. I shave my own face, wipe my own as$ and pay my own bills. Now I used to believe all that jazz about effing up the industry but when I got furloughed I don't remember anyone but me trying to provide for my family.

My advice go where you want, and if someone don't like it tell them to lick your taint and then punch'em in the head. Bunch of RJ-jerkoffs.

Jobear

 

[cjs]

I think that you should take what-ever job you want where-ever you want, why you ask? CAUSE FVCK what anyone thinks of me or my job. I shave my own face, wipe my own as$ and pay my own bills. Now I used to believe all that jazz about effing up the industry but when I got furloughed I don't remember anyone but me trying to provide for my family.

My advice go where you want, and if someone don't like it tell them to lick your taint and then punch'em in the head. Bunch of RJ-jerkoffs.

Jobear

So you'd be willing to cross a picket line?

 

[jobear]

If you can look at yourself in the mirror go ahead, as for me NO. That is for each person to decide, I couldn't and wouldn't. But then again I ain't a 23yrs old with spikey gel hair either.

 

[eaglefly]

So you'd be willing to cross a picket line?

I believe he would.

See how easily the "me first" attitude shows up.

F 'em all, I'm gettin mine, they scream............well, most will whisper it when nobody's listening.

Again, too late for this profession. There will be a new group (now in grade school) to screw over these kids in 15 years when they're the 40 year old "farts". With inflation, health care and energy costs, they'll be flyin' for real peanuts then.

I don't envy their airline futures.

On must note that traditionally, for every 6-8 major hopefuls at the regionals, there's only one major seat available. Most will remain at the regional level for their careers and with the whipsawing and race to the bottom, it's even bleaker for most..........................but hey ! ...............there will still be chicks, right ?

 

[jetalc]

Eaglefly: "Johnny O. is being made a millionaire over and over again on the backs of slavewage suckers."

Not sure who put Visine in yer coffee, but maybe (in all your enlightenment) you could explain which airline CEO ISN'T making millions off of the "hard work" of the laborers at the company? Accept it, deal with it, or get out of the industry. Or, better yet, become a CEO yourself.

I was at Mesa for a number of years, and I made pretty decent money in the last four or so years that I was there. I also had a pretty decent schedule (I know - it's all relative). I knew what I was getting into, accepted it, used it for the experience, and moved on. Perhaps what is good for you isn't necessarily for all - you obviously never worked there, so how can you call Mesa "contemptible?" (I guess that was Kenny's use of the word) I find JO a walking scammer, thief, and con-artist, but the world at Mesa doesn't necessarily revolve around that piece of dog-dung - it's simply guided by it. Once the main passenger door is closed, just like at any other airline, it's the pilots' show, and is as smooth-running or catastrophic as the crew makes it.

Try being furloughed, and see how quickly your "pilot brothers" come running to help you. This is a "me" world - even union unity is for the purpose of getting something better for the individual pilot. Spare me the idealism. I didn't feel entitled, and have worked my way to where I am after 34 years of flying crappy airplanes (no, not at Mesa - freight), scrapping for a few more hours of dual given, charter, pipeline patrol, aerial photography, freight-haulin', commuters, etc. At no point did I feel anyone owed me anything, but I also can't blame those who look for "shortcuts" for taking them when they find 'em. Where do you guys get off preaching to others about decisions they make in their personal lives?? What a bunch of hypocrites.

 

[ballsdeep123]

I'll take a shot at this one as someone who has my fingers crossed for a successful interview with them on Tuesday.

1. They offer lots of bases that are desirable.
2. They fly a nice variety of equipment
3. Pay is not nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be.. lets compare it to say Skywest.. Mesas first year pay is actually better than Skywest, and a 3 yr CRJ capt at Mesa makes 2 bucks an hour less than the same guy at Skywest.
4. Upgrades are fast... Turbine PIC is the golden ticket in the early stages of an aviation career.
5. They are a profitable company.
6. They show a desire for expansion and variety in their business plan that will likely continue to keep them a profitable company.
7. Profitable companies don't furlough.
8. See 7 again.. thats a biggie.
9. I have friends there that truly like it.. their opinions mean more to me then what I read on anonymous message boards.
10. From a personal standpoint I don't really want to fly single pilot night freight.
11. Regardless of what posted minimums may be it is difficult to get an airline job as an 1100/100 hour CFI, so I have to have some flexibility.

Hope all this helps.

cale

Cale,

You seem like a pretty smart guy. Most of the stuff you listed up there are pretty good reasons for wanting to go to Mesa. I definately see where you're coming from.

It wasn't that long ago I was sitting there thinking about going to Mesa myself. Interviewed there, payed the 50 bucks they make you pay just for the interview and got the job. They offered me a class date in the jet that started in two weeks. I couldn't have been any happier. And maybe I had a little SJS going on myself. On the day I was supposed to start class I took a gamble and interviewed at another regional airline. Luckily they offered me a job as well and I took it and couldn't be happier. What I have come to learn about Mesa is that they treat their people like Sh!t. I once looked at a Mesa release that had 9 MEL's on it, 4 of them which where pretty serious MEL's (I think I saw a picture of it on here). As if a captain at an airline doesn't have anything else to worry about. I have two friends who work at Mesa both of which have there resumes in with countless other regionals just waiting to leave as soon as they can. The average days off at Mesa is around 10 days off a month. I hope you don't have a family or a girlfriend because you won't be seeing them very much. Mesa has no work rules to speak of which means they can make you do whatever they want and they don't have to pay you for it. What I didn't understand about work rules when I was shopping around at regionals was how important they really are. People on this forum talk about how they make just as much as a guy at this airline or that airline. I heard a Go-jets guy talking about making $38 an hour, the same as what a Skywest pilot makes. The difference is, if you have good work rules that 38 dollars an hour turn into 50,000 dollars a year, instead of 35,000 dollars a year. Plus, it makes the company treat you better because they would have to pay you more to treat you like sh!t, which everyone knows airlines don't like to do.

Once you do get hired at a regional somewhere, you'll figure it out. It takes about a month or less of actual line flying to figure out that flying a jet really isn't that fun. That flight instructing really wan't that bad, minus the pay. So my suggestion to you is to do some shopping around. Don't just go to Mesa to fly a jet for a quick up grade. There's plenty of regionals out there who will treat you better and you might upgrade just as fast.

 

[cjs]

It takes about a month or less of actual line flying to figure out that flying a jet really isn't that fun.

I think most young pilots figure this out the hard way. A job is a job is a job. I don't care what you fly, what you drive, or what you design .. it WILL get old. Most guys look back on their CFI days as the best flying of their lives.