Time adjustments for logbooks

[highside]

As I look towards a transition to civilian flying I'm wondering how to convert my mil time (takeoff to touchdown) to civ time (allows for taxi time), for airline apps. I've heard adding .2 for every sortie as a technique. Sounds reasonable. Anybody with experience in this area? How will they view this seemingly arbitrary addition to every sortie in my logbook? I flew civilian before military so I've continued to keep a complete log of all flights unlike some mil guys who rely on flight records for that. I definitely know its not fair to compete against guys who have been logging taxi time. Thoughts?

 

[DLax85]

There is no set std...for example, SWA allows you to add .3 per sortie...FEDEX allows you to add .2 per sortie....you can pick one or the other for your non-specific resumes, but be sure to ask the specific airline on how they do there conversion when filling out your application or submitting a company specific resume (...they may even multiply any fighter time you have by another factor giving you even more total time)...most military people have found it best to take a long a "simple - easy to explain" spreadsheet showing exactly how you did your conversion from your military flight summary. Best of luck...keep moving the mission downrange safely.

 

[VVJM265]

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showpost.php?p=984690&postcount=68

Good luck.

 

[highside]

Good info, thanks!

 

[Pistlpetet]

The best way is to keep that logbook of yours correct and consistant with what your military forms list.

It is a companies option as to whether they want to consider a "Conversion Factor". Give them what you have and let them sort out your times.

If you go ahead and put in your logbook some conversion factor (Not FAA Approved), and you show up for a job interview at a place which has a different, or no conversion factor at all. Your times are going to be totally different from what your AF Form says.

Log your time the most conservative and correct way, keep it simple, and you will not have any problems keeping it straight. Don't change your logbook to conform to ONE airline.

Keep your logbook straight. Use it and your AF forms to fill out each airlines APP or Flight time matrix, which will include "Their" Factor.

 

[RickKC-135]

Don't add any military taxi time to your logbook. Just make it match your military flying records and use it as a backup. When you get called for an interview all they will want to see is your military flight records. I keep my military log book and civilial log book separately.

 

[VVJM265]

highside,

Like these guys said, & just to reiterate, don't convert your log book. But,do keep it accurate, including a sorite count. I have an electronic version (Logbook Pro) that I balance with my Navy logbook each month. I put in seperate columns for sortie count, Aircraft commander sorties & IP sorties. When it comes time to fill out an application, I can then easily do the conversions approriate to that company. Whether the conversion is (total + X*total) or (total + Y/sortie*#sorties) I have the info right at hand. I usually export a total report to excel, do the conversions and save the excel file.

Hope this helps & good luck,
265

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

I did not have a logbook when I interviewed at SWA and UPS last year. I just took the 1 page summary from AFORMS and let them figure it out. I was hired at both BTW.

 

[NTS ALL 4]

Best to keep civilian logbook seperate. At the interview bring in civilian logbook and Military AForms. Just make sure PIC + SIC = Total Time. Most companies don't give a flying crap about IP, Evaluator, and Other (Sim, Bunk time). I would bet most companies don't know about A code time either, so I wouldn't worry about that. I've been hired at 2 majors and 2 minors without a question. As stated earlier, make sure PIC+SIC=TT.

Cheers!

 

[Draginass]

If you're a military pilot, companies don't seem very concerned about exact breakdowns of your flying time . . . just the most important . . what your were flying and about how much PIC. They'll accept the military form usually without comment or question. I wouldn't get wrapped up with taxi time.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I learned something new. Didn't know thats how military guys did their time. Sounds like a B*tch to deal with.

 

[LearLove]

Best to keep civilian logbook seperate. At the interview bring in civilian logbook and Military AForms. Just make sure PIC + SIC = Total Time. Most companies don't give a flying crap about IP, Evaluator, and Other (Sim, Bunk time). I would bet most companies don't know about A code time either, so I wouldn't worry about that. I've been hired at 2 majors and 2 minors without a question. As stated earlier, make sure PIC+SIC=TT.

Cheers!

If you have CIV training in many cases your PIC +SIC won't equal TT. I don't know how it is if you have MIL only time, then maybe PIC+SIC=TT but I believe NTS is getting that info from the old UAL app where they wanted this. Now your PIC+SIC shouldn't be far off of your TT (unless you had alot of dual (training) logged). In my case my PIC+SIC falls about 54 short of my TT if I remember correctly from doing all thoes major apps from pre 911.

 

[highside]

Well, the reason I'm concerned about taxi time is I'm on the very edge of meeting the application mins for many jobs with slightly less that 1000 ME Jet PIC time. I understand the conversion is normally not a huge deal, but it is everything if you are on the verge of making the mins to apply.
Also, I soon will be going to get my ATP and will require the conversion to get me over 1500TT. Anyone do this before? Are they going to arrest me on site if I try this? Once again, only a big deal because I'm on the edge, but ridiculous considering I haven't logged any taxi time, .2 per sortie really adds up when you are flying .9's all the time! I want my ATP!

 

[VVJM265]

Well, the reason I'm concerned about taxi time is I'm on the very edge of meeting the application mins for many jobs with slightly less that 1000 ME Jet PIC time. I understand the conversion is normally not a huge deal, but it is everything if you are on the verge of making the mins to apply.
Also, I soon will be going to get my ATP and will require the conversion to get me over 1500TT. Anyone do this before? Are they going to arrest me on site if I try this? Once again, only a big deal because I'm on the edge, but ridiculous considering I haven't logged any taxi time, .2 per sortie really adds up when you are flying .9's all the time! I want my ATP!

highside,

Yes. Years ago, before I got my ATP, and thought I was going to get out of the Navy, I went to the FSDO with a similar number of hours and asked the same question you just did. The inspector told me he would sign off on my ATP if I did the conversions. I created an entire seperate logbook, but ended up not using it, nor getting my ATP until I had closer to 4000 hrs, so it was a wasted effort.

Last year, a former copilot of mine was in a similar situation when her recurrent sim class, which included an ATP check, got resheduled to an earlier date and she arrived at the class with ~1350 hrs. I advised her to check with the local FSDO and explain how the Navy logs flight time (see the link above to my previous discussion) and ask if she would be able to get her form endorsed. The answer was yes. She had her logbook FedEx'd to the class, did the conversion math, which put her closer to about 1550 total, and got her FAA form endorsed. She was then able to take the check ride and get her ATP.

Hope this helps and best of luck,
VVJM265

 

[NTS ALL 4]

Quibbling will not be tolerated!

If you have CIV training in many cases your PIC +SIC won't equal TT. I don't know how it is if you have MIL only time, then maybe PIC+SIC=TT but I believe NTS is getting that info from the old UAL app where they wanted this. Now your PIC+SIC shouldn't be far off of your TT (unless you had alot of dual (training) logged). In my case my PIC+SIC falls about 54 short of my TT if I remember correctly from doing all thoes major apps from pre 911.

If you're quibbling about 50 hours I think you have a lot more to worry about in your aviation career. I would bet even money most CIV fellas have pencil-whipped at least 50 hours in the logbook. Don't worry about the 50 hours of duel time. Just make PIC + SIC = TT and there will be no questions asked, expept by the guy who wants to know where your dual time is logged.

 

[fishalaska]

As I look towards a transition to civilian flying I'm wondering how to convert my mil time (takeoff to touchdown) to civ time (allows for taxi time), for airline apps. I've heard adding .2 for every sortie as a technique. Sounds reasonable. Anybody with experience in this area? How will they view this seemingly arbitrary addition to every sortie in my logbook? I flew civilian before military so I've continued to keep a complete log of all flights unlike some mil guys who rely on flight records for that. I definitely know its not fair to compete against guys who have been logging taxi time. Thoughts?

highside,
I am not sure how the FSDO will rate the conversion, but IMHO just fly the extra 50 hours. The last thing you want is someone to question your hours. My guess is they will look closely if you are just above the mins. My 2cents.

 

[Almerick07]

Keep calling the FSDO and keep asking different people until you get the answer you want.

 

[Benhuntn]

I would think that you show the ability to read and follow instructions at the interview if you can demonstrate that you read their procedures and adjusted your military time accordingly. So just keep it as it is until you get the call and then follow their instructions. I must say though that most airlines do accept your form 5 and they know how to read it. I had a long career with lots of pages so I used a spread sheet to break it out in an easy to read format. They never looked at my logbooks at any interviews.

Good luck!