Thoughts on Interns

[inthepool]

I'm just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on pilot bridge programs and interns. I was an intern and am currently sitting in the pool thanx to it, but I get the distinct feeling other people resent the "easy" road I had to getting hired...

 

[chperplt]

Why is going to route of intern the easy route? The internship may have gotten you an interview, but you still had to pass the interview, right? You still had to pass the sim ride, right??You had to interview for the internship, right?

Doesn't seem all that "easy" to me.

 

[inthepool]

I did have to interview for the internship. That interview was virtually identical to the real thing, but no written or sim ride. The "easy" road I'm refering to is the fact that minimums are halved for interns, so we interview with significantly less time.
PS: This isn't flamebait, I'm just a new guy trying to understand the industry better.

 

[chperplt]

There will always be people who think they worked harder for the job. You'll always meet people who think they deserve it over you. Tell those people to get bent!

You did't pay for your job. Enjoy it and be the best at it!

 

[ACWild]

I'm all for interns. We need someone who is willing to do the Jepp revisions for us. How do we get some?

 

[chperplt]

We need someone who is willing to do the Jepp revisions for us.

Those certainly are a pain in the a@@

 

[cocknbull]

There is nothing wrong with interns. Most interns come from a schools like ERAU. You are not paying for trainning in hopes of gaining an interview. I myself did not do an internship, but I can asure you I would have lined up to do it if I had the opportunity. If the company is willing to risk a wash out becuase of the inexperience then that is their choose. If you make it all the way through you should have the same respect as all the other pilots. End of story...

 

[KingAirKiddo]

I don't think there's anything wrong with interning. In today's market, any competitive advantage is worth pursuing in order to reach your goals. The key is to keep a positive attitude and remember that not everyone had such a "direct" route to their regional job. Leave the ego and the "know it all" attitude at the door and you should have no problems.

My viewpoint on this subject has changed drastically over the past several months. I am a product of an aviation university, although I did not intern. I used to view the bridge programs as somehow cheating the system and opted instead to "make it to the show" myself. Now, having realized my goal of making it to one of the better regionals, a part of me wishes that I'd taken advantage of the opportunities available to me that would've brought me here sooner. I do value the experience that I gained in taking a more circuitous route (and the contacts that I made should I find my self f-worded in the forseeable future), but I definitely don't blame anyone for wanting to get here sooner.

Anyway, if you're in the pool at ACA, best of luck...this is a great company and you're really going to like it.

Later.

KAK

 

[B1900DFO]

There will always be somebody who has worked harder than you to get the same job. There's probably somebody out there who deserves the job more. However, that's life and in this industry you should grab every opportunity you can, albeit with a good attitude. I resent the fact that British Airways hires 23 year olds with little or no flight time. Doesn't mean I wouldn't take the job in a heartbeat if they offered it to me at 23. Everybody succumbs to jealousy from time to time.

 

[CaptBuzzard]

Funny how things change. I used to resent people who did it, and that was back when the hiring was good when I had 500 hours or so. Now with the industry so bad, I am happy when I read that one more person got a job. If one has an opportunity to intern, do it. If you can get an interview somewhere because of it, consider it something that you did work for. It doesn't matter how anyone gets a job flying, as long as someone is truthful. The only one's I resent are the number of pilots out there that decided to do the 2 for 1 deal in their logbooks. Those are the ones who took jobs from people who earned the hours.

I just hate seeing so many people out of work, and it makes me happy for the ones who are getting the jobs. Good luck.

 

[Timebuilder]

but I get the distinct feeling other people resent the "easy" road I had to getting hired...

"Easy" probably is the wrong word. "Non traditional" might be better, along with "quicker", "shorter" and "newer".

I'll grant you, you can take a new private pilot and start training him in a King Air, teach him some cockpit and CRM procedures, do a lot of sim work, and sure enough, he'll be able to fly the darn thing sufficiently to be able to be used as an FO. Now, while I might have become a professional aviator sooner, I'm not "jealous", per se. Even with my below industry salary, I make more than regional FO's do in their first year (I'm just finishing my first year in the Lear) and I wouldn't want to be looking at another ten years in a 1900 before I could make as much as I will this coming year. So where's the beef?

I don't see bridge programs as taking advantage of the student, but perhaps they ARE taking advantage of the industry as a whole. Bridges are a sign of these times, the downward trend of wages and experience, including "life experience". Bridges are a subtle form of age discrimination, in that almost all of your hires will be younger workers, less concerned with the benefits of collective bargaining and eager to gain experience for the "next step". If they are laid off, airlines can count on them being around for recall, since few will be able to find another job due to their lack of other kinds of experience. Many won't be instructors, or will have let their CFI lapse, so instructing won't be an option. With low wages, the 'barely out of the nest' new FO will possibly have a safety net through their parents, and the airline operator can think of their crews as "apprentices" in avaition, rather than dedicated employees, worthy of a living wage.

With bridge programs, airlines assure themselves of a younger, less saavy, eager, and willing workforce who knows only what they want them to know. By keeping the supply of pilots for these jobs high, they can more freely dictate wages and benefits.

If you were an airline, wouldn't you want to circumvent pesky discrimination laws, get your new hires to train themselves as a part of their college tuition, know all of your operating procedures, and be unlikely to complain about it all? Sounds like a great deal to me. Let's start a regional...

 

[bobbysamd]

Bridge programs and internships

Excellent comments from Timebuilder on bridge programs, especially his thoughts on age discrimination, youth and naivete of those who participate, and effect of these programs on the industry and those who could not afford to participate in bridge programs.

As far as internships go, consider the current Mastercard TV commercial: "Pilot at the majors: Money coming out of the ying-yang. The internship that got you your first regional interview: Priceless." Another good reason to consider a college flight program, by the way.

 

[Timebuilder]

AMEN!

When I consider that I could have been wandering around a Florida beach instead of Greenwich Village during college, I have to wonder what the heck I was thinking...

 

[Pilot877]

"With bridge programs, airlines assure themselves of a younger, less saavy, eager, and willing workforce who knows only what they want them to know. By keeping the supply of pilots for these jobs high, they can more freely dictate wages and benefits.

No, what they get is an educated individual fresh out of college who knows how every department in the company works and is also familiar with flight operations due to the opportunity to learn aircraft systems, observe simulator training, and ride the cockpit jumpseat.

Wages and benefits are not dictated by the company, they are negotiated with the union and have been steadily getting better year after year at our company, despite "younger" pilots coming
in.

No, I was not an intern, but I consider them to be BlueRidge all the same.

 

[W8N4UAL]

Intern thoughts

Interning is a calculated risk. I chose to spend the summer after my junior year interning in Denver while some of my classmates flight instructed. They made money or at least broke even, I did the opposite. They built flight time that got them regional interviews before I did, but I could do some pretty interesting things in a 727 sim that didn't exactly count in the logbook.

Interning allows you to jump a few rungs in the ladder, which is very cool until you need to step down a rung and realize it's not there because of your lack of experience. Example: I was the only furloughed United dude I knew who didn't have the multi/turbine/PIC time to get another job pretty quick. After a year of non-flying, I bit the bullet and stepped back to flight instructing because I knew I needed to fly.

Airplanes rarely crash because the pilots couldn't fly an ILS, they tend to crash because the pilots couldn't or didn't communicate well (the "speak-up" factor I suppose). I believe airlines have found that they can learn a ton about some one after working with them for an extended period of time and it is for that reason that they drop the mins.

W8N

ps I LOVE Jepp revisions...they're a sign that I have a flying job.

 

[Timebuilder]

I'll ammend my peviously quoted paragraph. "...they can more freely dictate wages and benefits during negotiations."

The rest is a matter of perspective.

I believe airlines have found that they can learn a ton about some one after working with them for an extended period of time and it is for that reason that they drop the mins.

I was with you until that point. They drop the mins to keep enough pilots in the pool that wages and benifts improve VERY slowly due to the number of willing participants. If they had trouble convincing more experienced pilots to sign on, then they'd have to raise compensation.

 

[Pilot877]

I would have to say that the vast majority of pilots were not in the intern program, so there really arent enough moles or sleeper-cells of interns in the system to sustain the conspiracy.

If someone who interns decides that they want to fight for lower wages, I might consider throwing my $0.99 cheeseburger at them......then again:

T2 McD's at ORD = life sustaining for a first year F/O


Mmmmmm.......cheeseburgers.........

Have a nice day, guys, I'm going down to FLL beach to chase skirts!

 

[ACWild]

I remember reading in Money magazine that Fidelity Investments interns were getting 45 to 80 grand a year. Now that's a great way to get into a business!
Of course, Jepp revision peons will have to do it for free as pilots are a cheap bunch. I hope we won't have to tip them too.

 

[PUflight]

I used to do the Jepp revisions for the chief pilot for $20 a month on my internship, and I was more than willing. Ahhh to be an intern again

 

[100LL... Again!]

Internships are fine, as long as they do not involve PFT.

AND - AND - as long as the standards for groundschool, sim and OE are in no way relaxed.