This is where the industry is headed

[frqtflyer]

Industry Watch: Comair votes yes to management proposal
Comair pilots on Jan. 20 voted to accept a proposal, including the following provisions:
• Reduce pay rates between 9 and 21 percent
• Reduce per diem to $1.50
• Reduce deadhead credit to 75%
• Reduce vacation accrual and pay
• Reduce days off
• Eliminate company contributions to the pilot retirement plan beyond 2006 and implement a profit sharing plan in 2007
• Implement a new preferential bidding system
• 4 year duration

Comair pilots’ acceptance of their contract revisions supports the fact that the industry is driving regional carriers to adjust the way they do business.

Mutual dependency isnt just in ticket pricing but our wages and work rules apparently.


Just what everyone has been saying, they are willing to pay us nothing to fly airplanes. Maybe we should all work for free; would that work out better for management? I guess it will get worse before it ever gets better.

 

[81Horse]

Maybe we should all work for free; would that work out better for management? I guess it will get worse before it ever gets better? thoughts?

As soon as they figure out how to outsource domestic flying, they'll do that, too.

Lou Dobbs for President!

 

[buckwheat]

Why do you think they are letting all the mexican's across the border? hummm outsourcing pilots with illegals I wonder......

As soon as they figure out how to outsource domestic flying, they'll do that, too.

Lou Dobbs for President!

 

[81Horse]

It's the Canadians I'm really worried about. ;]

 

[Junkflyer]

You could all work for free and management would still find a way to lose money.

 

[81Horse]

Hah! And true -- 'cause the revenue still wouldn't cover their sweet compensation, bonus, incentive, and retirement packages.

 

[D-Bo]

Industry Watch: Comair votes yes to management proposal
Comair pilots on Jan. 20 voted to accept a proposal, including the following provisions:
• Reduce pay rates between 9 and 21 percent
• Reduce per diem to $1.50
• Reduce deadhead credit to 75%
• Reduce vacation accrual and pay
• Reduce days off
• Eliminate company contributions to the pilot retirement plan beyond 2006 and implement a profit sharing plan in 2007
• Implement a new preferential bidding system
• 4 year duration

Comair pilots’ acceptance of their contract revisions supports the fact that the industry is driving regional carriers to adjust the way they do business.

Mutual dependency isnt just in ticket pricing but our wages and work rules apparently.


Just what everyone has been saying, they are willing to pay us nothing to fly airplanes. Maybe we should all work for free; would that work out better for management? I guess it will get worse before it ever gets better.

The industry was headed this way when commuter pilots (I was one) agreed to fly 50 seat jets for peanuts. When the majors saw that commuters had a hard on for jets they dreamed of 70 and 100 seat jets flying around the country on 1000+ mile legs while paying the Captain only 60 or 70 bucks an hour and the FO 30 bucks an hour. They're getting their wish. The commuters took flying and jobs away from mainline with RJs and now that they have stripped most of the contracts at the majors they're now after the commuters. They won't stop until we all decide that we want fly a certain plane in a certain seat for under a certain dollar amount (not just hourly pay but total compensation package). This whole debacle has been brought on by ourselves. Many of you are concerned about outsourcing now. What do you think they were doing when they took the jets from mainline and gave smaller jet flying to the commuters? That was outsourcing.

 

[Phony Marconi]

They won't stop until we all decide that we want fly a certain plane in a certain seat for under a certain dollar amount (not just hourly pay but total compensation package).

That is exactly right. There is no bottom until there is nobody left willing to fly. I think we have a long way to go....

 

[El Ocho]

The industry was headed this way when commuter pilots (I was one) agreed to fly 50 seat jets for peanuts. When the majors saw that commuters had a hard on for jets they dreamed of 70 and 100 seat jets flying around the country on 1000+ mile legs while paying the Captain only 60 or 70 bucks an hour and the FO 30 bucks an hour. They're getting their wish. The commuters took flying and jobs away from mainline with RJs and now that they have stripped most of the contracts at the majors they're now after the commuters. They won't stop until we all decide that we want fly a certain plane in a certain seat for under a certain dollar amount (not just hourly pay but total compensation package). This whole debacle has been brought on by ourselves. Many of you are concerned about outsourcing now. What do you think they were doing when they took the jets from mainline and gave smaller jet flying to the commuters? That was outsourcing.

I think the history would say the blame lies more with the majors than the commuters, since the majors hire us, and they dictate the aircraft we fly.

Furthermore, the majors rule the union, so if there is to be change, it will have to come from above.

 

[El Ocho]

That is exactly right. There is no bottom until there is nobody left willing to fly. I think we have a long way to go....

yeah, like infinity to go, because there will never be nobody left willing to fly.

 

[John C. Holmes]

not until the FAA puts mins on 121 flying.....right now if your getting your ratings...accept the fact that your return on investment is gona be a long time coming...the "regionals" are still a $hit sandwich and will be for ever

 

[KCPilot]

The public is looking for cheap transportation weather it be in flying or ground trans and I’m guilty of that. For example, two weeks ago, I was looking for an airport shuttle or taxi from my house to the airport which is about 35 miles from the airport. The lowest round trip cost was $130 and that was on the shuttle. My roundtrip airfare on a 1.5 hour flt was $180 on SWA! Go figure!!

So back to the discussion, bottom line, in my opinion, if you have a senior union pilot going up against a CEO of an airline with an MBA and even higher education than the average union pilot, we will lose and continue to lose. The CEO wants profits for the shareholders. We want to keep our current pay, etc which is very reasonable considering what we do. Senior pilots will look out for themselves and screw the guys below them in order to get their retirement and the guys below will hope to have such luck in the future for themselves.

The only way that current and future pilots are going to win is for us to become as educated to meet the battle with the CEO in contract re-negations. (Also getting ride of the 1900’s union concept might help!) Pensions are a thing of the past in today’s world and it’s not just with the airlines, but with every big company. That is what the CEOs are looking at. We seem to be regressing instead of progressing. I’d like a good paycheck, avg of 2 weeks time off for health due to the effect of flying/travel, a good 401K and excellent health benefits so I can keep flying. Another thing, who are they going to get to fly these planes, guys right out of high school that flew a C-172 with 350 hrs and don’t mind making $19 hr? God I hope not, but you never know what they will do to save a buck!

In the end we all have to remember this and it goes for everything that we buy as Americans, “You get what you pay for”. Do we really want that in flying airplanes? I sure don’t!

Let the arrows fly!

 

[Quack]

I think I am gonna take a medical leave of absence for Anger Management...who's with me????

 

[Capi_Cafre']

The industry was headed this way when commuter pilots (I was one) agreed to fly 50 seat jets for peanuts. When the majors saw that commuters had a hard on for jets they dreamed of 70 and 100 seat jets flying around the country on 1000+ mile legs while paying the Captain only 60 or 70 bucks an hour and the FO 30 bucks an hour. They're getting their wish. The commuters took flying and jobs away from mainline with RJs and now that they have stripped most of the contracts at the majors they're now after the commuters. They won't stop until we all decide that we want fly a certain plane in a certain seat for under a certain dollar amount (not just hourly pay but total compensation package). This whole debacle has been brought on by ourselves. Many of you are concerned about outsourcing now. What do you think they were doing when they took the jets from mainline and gave smaller jet flying to the commuters? That was outsourcing.

How about giving it another shot? Try working "ALPA" into your post somewhere.

 

[RJP]

This whole debacle has been brought on by ourselves.

AMEN! Everyone whines about how horrible it is but we're all willing to do this job for less than what someone at Jack In The Box makes. Unfortunately, the bottom is probably still a long way off.

 

[difete]

I always say, lets go down to the $2.00 dollars an hour, and a tip jar at the Jetway entrance.

 

[Prop2Jet]

Robots.... its all about robots hahahahhahha

 

[PCL_128]

What do you think they were doing when they took the jets from mainline and gave smaller jet flying to the commuters? That was outsourcing.

They didn't "take" the jets from mainline and "give" them to the commuters. You allowed them to do that with your swiss-cheese scope language. "Fifty-seat jets? We don't want that. Give it to those commuter pukes." Real smart, guys. Now you are suffering the consequences. Don't blame us for your lack of foresight. Now, instead of fixing the problem and holding the line, most of you are just giving up yet more flying. Only the NWA pilots are holding strong on scope language. God bless them.

 

[Bdfg1]

They didn't "take" the jets from mainline and "give" them to the commuters. You allowed them to do that with your swiss-cheese scope language. "Fifty-seat jets? We don't want that. Give it to those commuter pukes." Real smart, guys. Now you are suffering the consequences. Don't blame us for your lack of foresight. Now, instead of fixing the problem and holding the line, most of you are just giving up yet more flying. Only the NWA pilots are holding strong on scope language. God bless them.

PFT you still talkin?

 

[PCL_128]

PFT you still talkin?

Always. Just try to stop me! :uzi:

 

[Bdfg1]

Thus the problem PFT. Thanks for your support PFT.

 

[PCL_128]

Thus the problem PFT. Thanks for your support PFT.

Glad I could be of help.

 

[Bdfg1]

Glad I could be of help.

You were the best of help when you PFT'd PFT.

 

[B727-100QF]

They didn't "take" the jets from mainline and "give" them to the commuters. You allowed them to do that with your swiss-cheese scope language. "Fifty-seat jets? We don't want that. Give it to those commuter pukes." Real smart, guys. Now you are suffering the consequences. Don't blame us for your lack of foresight. Now, instead of fixing the problem and holding the line, most of you are just giving up yet more flying. Only the NWA pilots are holding strong on scope language. God bless them.

As an interested observer that doesn't fly for an "airline" I have a comment to make. Regardless of how the planes came to the regional's property, the fact is that regional pilots did and continue to fly them for peanuts and it seems are willing to fly them for even less in the future. Until that fact changes, the entire passenger airline industry in the US is screwed.

 

[DX Rick]

As an interested observer that doesn't fly for an "airline" I have a comment to make. Regardless of how the planes came to the regional's property, the fact is that regional pilots did and continue to fly them for peanuts and it seems are willing to fly them for even less in the future. Until that fact changes, the entire passenger airline industry in the US is screwed.

It was inevitable. If the current pilots at the time refused to fly them, the airlines would have found the next sucker to fly them for nothing. Did you think ALPA would have actually put up a fight to get these guys higher pay?

How many times has AH at Mesa came back to the pilot group and said "Guys, this is the best I could get" Yet his fat arse collects -900 pay and has a sweet schedule.
Golfing with JO last week, Skiing next week.