This guy is not very happy with Mesa....

[chperplt]

http://www.aspentimes.com/article/2...OLUMN/112020019

By Andy Stone
December 2, 2004


If I'm going to hell when I die - and I have it on very good authority that I am - at least the first part of that experience will not come as a surprise. I know what the scene at the gates of hell will look like.

It will be exactly like the scene that greets your eyes as you approach the end of the moving walkway in Concourse B of Denver International Airport on your way to the dreaded Gate 61.

For those of you lucky enough to have avoided this preview of **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ation, I will note that Gate 61 is the departure gate for the United Express flights to Aspen (and, for that matter, Vail) that are operated by Mesa Air.

Mesa Air is the outfit that operates the dinky little prop planes (that's a technical term) that have taken over more and more of the flights into the mountains.

The other United Express flights, the smooth, fast, convenient ones using the bigger four-engine jets are operated by Air Wisconsin. I have plenty of complaints about Air Wisconsin, but there's no doubt about it: Air Wisconsin is Purgatory. Mesa Air is plain old hell.

The area around Gate 61 - just like the territory on the far shores of the River Styx - is filled with milling crowds of confused and suffering souls, dreading whatever lies ahead. The wails of the hopeless fill the air. There's no place to sit. There's no room to stand. Rasping screeches fill the air - in hell the noise comes from Satan's henchmen, at Gate 61 it comes from a cheap PA system ... but what, really, is the difference?

But the real parallel between Gate 61 and the gates of hell is that the deepest horror lies beyond.

Never mind the confusion, the delays, the screaming mobs of the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed ... I mean, the passengers. Never mind the long, dank hallway with well-meaning but helpless Mesa Air employees doing their best to keep things from falling apart. From the gate to the tarmac, the experience is either Third World or third rate (take your choice) - but still, never mind that, I'm talking about what comes next: the flights.

Mesa Air flies deHaviland Dash 8s - twin-engine turboprops or (to use that technical term once again) dinky little planes.

I have heard Mesa Air stewardesses tell passengers - in soothing tones - that the Dash 8 is "the perfect plane for mountain flying, the safest plane for this kind of flight." But the fact is, these planes represent a great leap backward in class, quality, comfort and service from the jets that used to handle all the United Express flights into the mountains.

The Dash 8 may be safe, but it flies lower and slower than the jets and it gets blown all over the sky.

On one flight I took recently, the weather was a little rough, nothing serious, but the Dash 8 got tossed up, down and sideways every minute or so. And the woman in the seat in front of me screamed - a real scream, filled with real terror - every time the plane lurched. She was not a happy customer and I cannot believe that she will gladly contemplate another flight to Aspen.

On another flight, the man across the aisle from me grabbed the stewardess before we took off and said, "I'd feel a lot better on a real airplane."

What happened? Somehow, when no one was paying attention, the air service from Denver to Aspen changed from deluxe to disaster.

And nobody seems to mind - except, of course, the passengers. Everyone once in a while, I read a comment in the paper from some PR flack explaining what great service we're getting. "Why, it's better than ever!" they exclaim. "Things are great!"

Well, I'm here to tell you that ain't the case.

In fact, the only consolation I can take is that when I do finally make that journey to my "final destination," across the Styx and into fiery **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ation, I'll find that very same PR flack already there, burning in his own private pit.

I'll kick a clump of brimstone down on him and I'll scream, "Gate 61!"

He'll know what I mean.

Andy Stone is former editor of The Aspen Times. His e-mail address is [email protected]

 

[wrxpilot]

http://www.aspentimes.com/article/2...OLUMN/112020019

On another flight, the man across the aisle from me grabbed the stewardess before we took off and said, "I'd feel a lot better on a real airplane."

Well, my version of hell would be me having to read countless aviation editorials written by clueless retards. Sure seems to be happening a lot lately, maybe I'm already there...

If these people are so terrified of small planes, I don't see why they would fly in them. The drive to Grand Junction or Denver is not that bad, particularly if you're terrified of those dangerous little prop planes (you know, the planes that aren't "real".).

I've also noticed a lot of variation between passengers. I've been on flights where there were a couple of bumps, and some screwball female starts crying. It just perpetuates from there, and now everybody's freaked out. I've also been on flights were we had REAL moderate turbulence, which is pretty rough when you're not used to it. The two roughest times were west of Denver and the Florida panhandle. Both times nobody seemed bothered... I'd imagine because there was nobody screaming "we're gonna die!" and freaking everyone else out.

Must've been a slow news day in Aspen. Next week it'll probably turn back to the usual snowboarders vs skiers, stupid ski school kids, etc.

 

[Sctt@NJA]

Ah Aspen. One way in, one way out. Unless the winds are calm or an exact crosswind you will be either landing or taking off with a tailwind. The mountains are lovely for skiing and a real complication for flying. If I had my choice for getting in and outa there it would be a turbo-prop. Call it dinky I don't care.

 

[CF34-3B1]

Translation:

I paid $69 on I'mSoFrigginCheap.Com for this ticket, and I demand 747-400 service, a free first class upgrade, chilled champagne, a foot massage from the FA and the right to leave my screaming brat's dirty diaper in the seatback pocket.

All for less than the price of driving my minivan there.

 

[atrdriver]

Translation:

I paid $69 on I'mSoFrigginCheap.Com for this ticket, and I demand 747-400 service, a free first class upgrade, chilled champagne, a foot massage from the FA and the right to leave my screaming brat's dirty diaper in the seatback pocket.

All for less than the price of driving my minivan there.

Exactly!

 

[ohiopilot]

CF, you hit the nail on the head.

If these pukes don't like the service, GET THERE A DIFFERENT WAY!!

If I want to pay minimum for my ticket, I should expect to receive the same. Have they never heard of "you get what you pay for" ?

 

[Sctt@NJA]

Lots of pilots seem willing to blame the pax for low fares wich bring low wages ect. The pax don't set the fares, so I don't get it.

I am not defending this particular guy who doesn't like "little prop planes". But pilots seem to blame the pax everytime a pax has a complaint. Saying stuff like "you get what you pay for". I will say it one more time because its simple: pax don't set the fares... so why blame them?

 

[pilotman2105]

The pax don't set the fares, so I don't get it.

Not directly they don't, but indirectly they do. Airline A offers route from X-Y for $200. Airline B comes in and offers same route for $175. All the passengers flock to Airline B.

IMHO, the problem started when the first pilot group accepted a pay concession, regardless of what airline it was. It set a precendent for that type of negotiation between pilots and management. Management can then use the leverage of "well, Airline B's pilot's are willing to fly for a little bit less than, so if you don't accept the pay concession, we'll just hire someone else." Not to mention the sell-outs who are just building hours in the regionals. But, that's another thread...

I'm certainly no expert, and I'm sure that there are those here who claim to know more about it than I. But it just seems to make sense that the consumer wants 1st class service at rock bottom prices, just as CF said. Those cuts have to come from somewhere, and salaries are the most attractice line item for management to cut.

 

[Pickle]

In a way, yes, the passengers DO set the fares. If nobody will pay XXX dollars for a seat on a plane, no matter the level of service, then you hvae to price the seats at a level which the public will pay. And if that particular fare causes the company to lose money and go out of business, the general public do not care because next week a new company will come in charging the same low fare. Until they go out of business too.

 

[TonyC]

Sounds to me like some of y'all are takin' this EDITORIAL a bit too personal. Let's face it, the Dash 8 is NOT as quiet and comfortable as larger, turbine powered aircraft, even if it might be better suited for a particular route. The passenger has a perspective that's largely limited to the seat pitch and width, the noise and vibration, and the level of service. He couldn't care less about winds, approach speeds, turbulence categories, or operating costs.


The guy's writing style was easy to read, he used a healthy sprinkling of humor, and he probably got a rowdy "Amen" from a large number of readers. Don't get your feathers all in a twist - - it ain't about pilots.

 

[Ted Striker]

Let's face it, the Dash 8 is NOT as quiet and comfortable as larger, turbine powered aircraft

Are those Lycomings or Rotax on the Dash-8?

 

[Flywrite]

Well, Mr. Stone certainly has a flair for the dramatic doesn't he?

You've certainly led a blessed life if your idea of hell is a trip to Aspen in a Dash.

 

[Styles]

Why is it I'm one of the few who prefer being in a small plane with mass ammounts of turbulence, in my book it's fun and breaks the monotony. And there is nothing wrong with Dash 8's, cluless freaking editor.

 

[Dep676]

Well there is always the Four wheel Chevy. What's this tool thinking? Next time he driving through a snow in the mountains he will apreciate that Dahs 8 getting bounced around. Better yet he could go somewhere warm and vacation instead of a fricking popsicle of a place. Even better he could buy is own plane and go in himself.

 

[Styles]

Andy Stone is former editor of The Aspen Times. His e-mail address is [email protected].

hmmm I know a couple people on this board might have fun with the above info

 

[Dodge]

He can always buy a First Class ticket and ride with me out to ASE.

 

[Goose Egg]

Well, my version of hell would be me having to read countless aviation editorials written by clueless retards.

I laughed out loud when I read the above quoted, and it couldn't have been more accurately phrased. The author of the article is too much of a pansy to live in the mountains. He should sit through a few student landings; then his Dash 8 trips might not seem so harrowing.

-Goose

 

[Pickle]

Originally Posted by wrxpilot
Well, my version of hell would be me having to read countless aviation editorials written by clueless retards.


Originally Posted by Goose Egg
Laughed out loud when I read the above quoted, and it couldn't have been more accurately phrased. The author of the article is too much of a pansy to live in the mountains.


Yeah, "retard", great word. Well worth a laugh. Find a new one.

 

[Goose Egg]

Yeah, "retard", great word. Well worth a laugh. Find a new one.

Ok, well, perhaps not the most PC thing to say, but probably something that shouldn't be taken literally, as niether I nor the original poster meant it in that fashion. You seem to be under some tension. Perhaps you should take a chill pill.

-Goose

 

[gfvalvo]

In a way, yes, the passengers DO set the fares. If nobody will pay XXX dollars for a seat on a plane, no matter the level of service, then you hvae to price the seats at a level which the public will pay. And if that particular fare causes the company to lose money and go out of business, the general public do not care because next week a new company will come in charging the same low fare. Until they go out of business too.

It's called Supply and Demand. It's the way we do things here.

 

[SloDoDriver]

It reminds me of when one of our passengers (a private pilot) wrote up a crew in the J-41 for not doing their "MAG" check before take off.....everyone's an expert......

 

[FL000]

...and don't we all feel sorry for the poor souls heading to Aspen for a ski weekend? I'm sure the screaming lady passenger was worried she might spill her mimosa on her fur coat.

 

[FlyChicaga]

God forbid that any passenger want a decent level of service, a clean, quiet ride, a comfortable seat, and a cheap ticket. Anyone here saying that they do not want the EXACT same thing is lying. I know that when I travel I like to fly on a large, comfortable airplane that is very clean, with friendly employees, for less moola.

This "what do you expect" and "you get what you pay for" is ridiculous. No wonder we at the airlines are in trouble.

 

[TonyC]

God forbid that any passenger want a decent level of service, a clean, quiet ride, a comfortable seat, and a cheap ticket. Anyone here saying that they do not want the EXACT same thing is lying. I know that when I travel I like to fly on a large, comfortable airplane that is very clean, with friendly employees, for less moola.

This "what do you expect" and "you get what you pay for" is ridiculous. No wonder we at the airlines are in trouble.

AMEN!

 

[Styles]

I laughed out loud when I read the above quoted, and it couldn't have been more accurately phrased. The author of the article is too much of a pansy to live in the mountains. He should sit through a few student landings; then his Dash 8 trips might not seem so harrowing.

-Goose

Naaaa those are not bad, teaching stall recoveries have him sit in the back while I teach that better yet cross winds in a low wing aircraft, or a ride with Patty Wagstaff in her AC.

God forbid that any passenger want a decent level of service, a clean, quiet ride, a comfortable seat, and a cheap ticket. Anyone here saying that they do not want the EXACT same thing is lying. I know that when I travel I like to fly on a large, comfortable airplane that is very clean, with friendly employees, for less moola.

This "what do you expect" and "you get what you pay for" is ridiculous. No wonder we at the airlines are in trouble.

You know I find just as much leg room in Dash8 than some of the "Large comfortable airplanes" as you call them. What you pay is what you get period.

 

[FN FAL]

That's funny, the cardboard and corrugated boxes back in coach dint seem to mind the ride last night and not one peep out of the express letters in first class when the flight got cancelled.

 

[gfvalvo]

Translation:

I paid $69 on I'mSoFrigginCheap.Com for this ticket, and I demand 747-400 service, a free first class upgrade, chilled champagne, a foot massage from the FA and the right to leave my screaming brat's dirty diaper in the seatback pocket.

All for less than the price of driving my minivan there.

I really think the airline guys on this board are too emotionally close to this issue to see things clearly. It seem pretty simple to me:

Passengers want the maximum level of service for the minimum price.

The airlines want revenues to exceed costs in order to maximize profits.

Employees want to maximize wages, benefits, pensions, etc.

Obviously, EVERYONE can't be satisfied simultaneously. That's were market forces come in. Left to its own devices, the market will produce a solution:

If some people can't travel by air because fares aren't below their price point - SO BE IT.

If airlines go out of business due to mismanagement, failing revenue, or out-of-control costs - SO BE IT.

If employee wages erode because others are willing to provide the same services for less money - SO BE IT.

That's how the market works. It sure beats the disaster of a "planned economy".

Before someone accuses me of being insensitive to the human cost, note that by trade I'm an engineer in the telecom industry. Over the past 4 years I've seen my share of company failures, layoffs, corrupt executives, and plummeting stock prices. I'm not complaining that my customers want to buy transmission bandwidth at the lowest possible price. The market sets the price for that commodity, of which there is a huge glut due to the overbuilding by my own industry. Supply and demand - that's where it's at baby.

 

[crash-proof]

Here's the reply from the writer

Apparently, it's safe to assume some of ya wrote back to the writer. Well, here's the reply!

************************
http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20041209/COLUMN/112090014

And now, a word from your pilot

By Andy Stone

December 9, 2004

Last week I wrote a column that was critical of the United Express flights operated by Mesa Air that serve Aspen (and Vail) with the propeller-driven DeHavilland Dash-8.

In that column, I compared Mesa's Gate B 61 at the Denver airport with the gates of hell and suggested that the rough flights on those prop planes were the kind of experience one might expect after passing through those gates of hell.

My cheerful comments have triggered an avalanche of e-mail expressing - by a 10-to-1 margin - the opinion that I am an "idiot." (Some writers preferred the term "ignorant." Others chose "stunningly uninformed." At least one felt that the proper word was "retard.")

A lot of those messages came, not surprisingly, from Mesa Air employees - although I had been careful to limit my criticism to the gate setup at DIA and the planes themselves.

But most of the messages came from Dash-8 pilots all over the country. One pointed out, "Pilots, like myself, get a little too personal when people write negative towards the equipment we fly."

And it's true, I did refer to the Dash-8 as a "dinky little prop plane" and I did comment that it "may be safe, but it flies lower and slower than the jets and it gets blown all over the sky."

And - ignorant, uninformed retard though I may be - I think I'll stick with those comments. (Although I certainly need to apologize for referring to a flight attendant as a "stewardess." **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** me for being so careless and politically incorrect.)

And I suppose the Dash-8 pilots will gladly stick with their low opinion of me. But never mind that. I figure that dishing out a certain amount of abuse and getting a certain amount in return is part of my job description.

What's interesting is the fact that the letters from those pilots - those Dash-8 pilots - revealed something else.

Those guys don't just hate me. They hate you - they hate the flying public in general and they really, really hate people who fly to Aspen.

Here, I'll let them speak for themselves. Following are some direct quotes from e-mails I received this week:


• "Stop your whining!!! You get what you pay for. When you pay 1970s ticket prices, what do you expect. ... Your ignorance is typical."


• "I suppose you feel you deserve hourly service to Aspen in a 747-400, first class, champagne service with a full meal and movie for $39 each way."


• "It would be great if the airlines raised the prices on tickets as to weed out the people that should be riding the bus anyway."

• "I hate to be the one to tell you sniveling fuss-budgets (read: the flying public) that YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. I'm sure that United Airlines would be happy to fly a Boeing 737 to Aspen or Telluride if the general public was willing to pay what it truly costs to fly. The fact is, they ain't."

• "Aspen passengers verbally harass our flight attendants the most, demand special treatment from our gate agents the most, and have the least respect for our equipment by leaving trash and food on board when they deplane. On more than one occasion after a flight to Aspen had been delayed or canceled, angry passengers have approached me, the captain (in uniform no less) in the terminal (and in full view of other passengers) and questioned my judgment using profanity and extreme disrespect. ... I had a woman uncage her lap dog in-flight so it could urinate on the floor of my aircraft."

• "Aspen passengers are in the top 3 most obnoxious passengers I have ever flown. ... You are a dumb ass. You simply reiterated all the stupidity that streams from passengers' mouths all day long."

So, that's how the people who fly Dash-8s feel about their customers.

And finally, here's a pilot's heartfelt advice for all of us in the back of the plane: "Passengers like you make this job miserable. The smartest thing you can do on an airplane is sit down, buckle your seat belt and be silent at least until the engines are running and I can't hear your stupidity any more."

So maybe I can sum it up for all of them this way - and, no, no one sent this to me in an e-mail, but it seems to be the general message I got from the men who fly Dash-8s:


"Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. From the flight deck, this is your pilot speaking. I hate you."


Andy Stone is former editor of The Aspen Times. His e-mail is [email protected]

 

[I.P. Freley]

Apparently, it's safe to assume some of ya wrote back to the writer. Well, here's the reply!


Here, I'll let them speak for themselves. Following are some direct quotes from e-mails I received this week:

• "Aspen passengers verbally harass our flight attendants the most, demand special treatment from our gate agents the most, and have the least respect for our equipment by leaving trash and food on board when they deplane. On more than one occasion after a flight to Aspen had been delayed or canceled, angry passengers have approached me, the captain (in uniform no less) in the terminal (and in full view of other passengers) and questioned my judgment using profanity and extreme disrespect. ... I had a woman uncage her lap dog in-flight so it could urinate on the floor of my aircraft."

Hmmm... That sounded familiar... Could it be....?

What a kok. Being one who flys this aircraft on this route regularly, I'd like to publish some examples of Aspenite attitude in that same rag.

Like:

The time I was approached, cursed at, harassed, and told I was "incompetant" by a passenger in the terminal (in front of other passengers) when we were weather delayed.

The time a woman uncaged her poodle in flight and allowed it to urinate on the floor during the 20 minute leg.

The time a guy came up to the flight deck during my preflight brief and demanded we "hurry up with the paperwork" (He took the bus that day)

The times they've made the gate agents cry.

The time I held a plane 10 minutes to accomadate a late connecting couple. When they arrived at the gate and saw the Dash-8 they said I'm not flying on that thing, and insisted they were re-booked into the 146.

It never ends with these rich spoiled A-holes. Sometimes I actually enjoy making the PA and telling them that we've gone missed and will be returning to Denver. In those cases, I DO pity the poor FA.

Looks like we know the identity of at least ONE of those people who sent this dorkus an email!

 

[Styles]

-Emotion off-
What needs to be done now is a well thought out and written rebuttal, leaving out the personal attacks and bad language. Then have everyone sign the message and send it. He is basically over generalizing and he needs to be put in check.
-/Emotion off-

He is a spoiled little rich ahole. And I do feel for the Dash-8 Pilots and Crew and most of the PAX who are decent, but people like that can put a damper on a short flight, I don't see any harm to help out a customer with in reason, but I think the general attitude of people is inherently just plain OL MEAN, and don't care for anybody else except themselves.

My hats off to the pilots and crew of all short hops, if you find me on one of your hops and if someone acts up or just goes ahole, expect a little retaliation from me! BTW I have only been on a dash 8 (delta connection I think in Ohio) once, great flight and hotie FA