this goes on, I guess

[avbug]

With respect to your last question, it was already examined in depth, above.

 

[starchkr]

A little twist to the above...

Isn't it possible for a type rated person to log PIC anytime they are in that type of plane, no matter where they are sitting. Whether in the cockpit or even just flying on vacation in the back?

 

[avbug]

No.

 

[Cornelius]

The point of this whole thread is that utahpilot wanted to talk how crazy this would be if it really happened. I have heard of people logging time in the back seat and it is absurd. My God, are we that desperate for time. When would a situation like that ever occur during GA flight training? Like many of us believe, if we were involved in an accident or the FAA were to question our role/responsibility on a flight, can we justify our actions/duties? Even I think sitting as safety pilot and logging PIC time is a bit of a stretch.

 

[skydiverdriver]

It may not pass the "smell" test, but this is legal. I have a letter from the FAA that says it is. I'm not sure where the idea came from that you have to sit in a certain seat to log a certain kind of time, but it isn't true. The guy in the back is legitimate, and you can even log PIC time from the jumpseat in 121 ops.

 

[skydiverdriver]

Brian

Take a look at 121.434, c1ii, "in the case of a transitioning pilot in command the check pilot serving as pilot in command may occupy the observers seat."

I dont' think the guy who wrote that was on crack. You will understand things a bit better when you have worked for an airline longer, as things might not be the way you were taught in flight school.

Good luck to all of you.

 

[utahpilot]

all I was saying was that I've seen this go on among CFI's who are looking to build their multi time. 4 ME rated pilots, two are MEIs. the two non-MEIs take turns flying in the left seat while the one MEI is in the front, the other in the back, each saying that they are giving dual in the light twin. all four log PIC for the entire flight.

seems to me, the MEI up front can log it all, the ME rated pilot in the right seat can log the time he is flying ONLY, and the dude in the back is, in fact, on crack to think he has anything to do with the flight or logging the time, even if he discusses ME procedures in the back with the other joker.

anyway, thanks for the responses

 

[utahpilot]

sorry, I mean the "ME rated pilot in the left seat can log ONLY the time he is flying" (not the time he is sitting in the back watching and discussing the flight with the other loser MEI

 

[ksu_aviator]

I'm putting an end to this discussion

I don't normally copy and paste the FAR's but this time I feel I have to. The situation the original post describe was a Part 91 flight in a Single Pilot, Multi-engine aircraft with 4 "Pilots" logging PIC time. Therefore, Part 61.51 says:

(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time.

(1) A recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in- command time only for that flight time during which that person --

(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated;

(ii) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; or

(iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.

If you read this properly, the PIC in this case is the one manipulating the controls. The MEI can not log PIC time unless he/she was flying or the Left seater was under the hood, because the airplane only requires one pilot. From there, nobody in the back can log any time. They are not required crew. The only required crew was the left seat pilot and then only one other pilot is required if that left seat pilot was under the hood.

Get over the idea that you can log part 91 PIC time from the back seat. It just isn't legal. I don't care how many FAA forms or legal reviews you claim to have, its not legal.

 

[utahpilot]

don't have the FARs right here, but I'm pretty sure the MEI can log all the time since he is a qualified instructor giving dual, right?