This blows me away

[a320drivr]

I have had it with these bankrupt airlines not having to pay their bills!!!

A new settlement agreement that would cut United Airlines' obligation on $600 million of Chicago O'Hare Airport debt by 75 percent was expected to be approved by a bankruptcy court judge in February, according to attorneys.


Attorneys for the airline, bondholders and the city of Chicago agreed on wording for the deal in US Bankruptcy Court on Wednesday. However, the deal will be reviewed by bondholders over the next few weeks before Judge Eugene Wedoff will take it up for approval on Feb. 15.



If there are no bondholder objections, Wedoff is expected to approve the deal on that date, said David Seligman, an attorney representing United.



Under the deal United would no longer have to pay off about $450 million of special facilities revenue bonds sold by O'Hare Airport to finance projects for the airline.



A previous settlement agreement that surfaced in October fizzled after some bondholders raised objections. The new agreement includes all the bondholders, unlike the previous deal that only included some of them, Seligman said.



Details of the new deal were not immediately available as attorneys revised some of the wording in court to accommodate concerns raised by Chicago's attorneys. The airline has not made any debt service payments on the bonds since filing for bankruptcy protection in December 2002.

 

[a320drivr]

US Airways said on Thursday it expects to file a plan by February 15, 2005 on how it will emerge from bankruptcy.



AirWise News reports the airline also asked the US Bankruptcy Court for the Eastern District of Virginia to extend until March 31 the period in which it is the only party that can file a reorganization plan. The current deadline is January 10.



However, US Airways said it expects to file by the February date as required under its financing agreement with GE Capital.



US Airways has kept operating with cash remaining in a USD$1 billion loan pact with the federal government's Air Transportation Stabilization Board and private lenders.

That lifeline is due to expire by January 14 although a hearing on extending that arrangement is scheduled for January 13.



A recent lease and financing deal with GE would save the airline another USD$140 million but requires US Airways to meet cost-cutting goals.



Talks resume next week between US Airways and unions representing mechanics, baggage handlers and a group of other workers, all members of the International Association of Machinists.



The judge overseeing US Airways bankruptcy proceedings has indicated he will rule by January 6 on whether to terminate existing labor agreements if new ones are not reached.



If these remaining workers cannot reach a deal, the US Airways' final proposal will be put to a vote by the 4,000 mechanics, 4,200 fleet service employees like baggage handlers, and 126 maintenance training instructors.

 

[LearLove]

"I have had it with these bankrupt airlines not having to pay their bills!!! "
As opposed to new entry LCC's going into a market and getting a free ride for a specified amount of time while the legacy carrier (who has served the community for 50 or so years and has more flight options) pays through the nose. It works both ways.

 

[N1atEcon]

"getting a free ride"

Please explain how a LCC is getting a free ride?

Under your statment one could assume that if UAL, Delta and and SWA want to start service to city X. That UAL and DAL would pay to service it. SWA however, would get free gates, landing fees, ramp space, support, baggage and counter space. I think your way off! I will agree that some cities have given favorable lease terms to get SWA to service their city to lower airfare costs for their citizens. But nothing is free. Airports are a business just like taco bell. It is all about profit.
I remember when National was Chapter 11. Rumor had it they asked LAS for a break on their gates. As in free, nada, zip. They felt because they were the "home town airline" they deserved a break. LAS told them to get lost. A few days later SFO sent them a bill for (i think) 7.5 mil. They told them to pay up or they would deny them landing rights after a few days. It worked they payed in the next day or so. Managment tells us that opening up new cities is big, big $$$$$$$$$$$$$.

 

[91100 100 set]

I heard a rumor that SWA was negotiating a deal with PHL to extend runway 26 right through taxiway E and past the old trailer ramp on into their gates. Upon completion, runway 26 would be a "special access" runway for arriving SWA flights only. Part of a "Welcome to Philly, we love having you here" kinda thing I guess. Just what I heard...

 

[a320drivr]

Yeah, that must be it. LCC carriers getting a free ride explains why we have been making money. Try fuel hedging, 1 or 2 types of aircraft, etc. Oh i forgot, we dont pay for our fuel or airplanes or mx. Airbus pays for it.

Now I am sure you will knock our pay. After my latest checking we make more than a UAL 320 Capt. and Airways 320 Capt. Even more in career earnings than a AMR 757 Capt. I am now sure that you will say we lowered the bar. B.S.!!! If we lowered the bar why did UAL and Airways pilots go to rates below ours and not just match them even?

 

[JohnQ]

"getting a free ride"

Please explain how a LCC is getting a free ride?

I am not hostile to the LCCs, as are many. I do not feel that a LCC pilot "owes" a legacy pilot anything. We live in a capitalist society, last time I checked. That said, the LCCs have got many allowances that the legacies have not.

1. It is SWA not using PDCs for their clearances so as to "cut costs"--as if ANY flight could get a clearance at LAX except for the legacies paying the costs of PDC/ACARS--so as to allow the SWAs of the world to not pay for it--then crow about their low costs.

2. It is David Neeleman petitioning the Port Authority of NY/NJ for slots at JFK so as to "serve upstate NY"--even though that never was nor ever will be the primary thrust of JetBlue. But hey, you got the slots!

3. It is David Neeleman actually having the gall to complain about "predatory pricing" by the legacy airlines daring to defend their turf. No doubt a sympathetic congressman was lending his ears.

4. It is the city of Wichita giving cash payments to Airtran so as to encourage them to fly to ICT.

5. It is the FAA looking the other way when Delta could not fly their old DC-9s due to Heavy Maintence Visit requirements--and then ValuJet got a waiver from the HMV requirement on the same airplanes after Delta sold them!

6. It is the cherry-picking of routes, leaving the Valdosta Georgias and Portland Maines in the cold (no pun intended). It is the never-had-a-pension airline, much less terminating one.

Don't get me wrong. The LCCs for the most part run a tight ship, and have great employee groups who still think the airlines are there to serve the pax, and not the other way around. (Believe it or not I actually once had a captain tell me that he wished we had fewer passengers so as to make it easier to nonrev). But don't say that the LCCs have never had any sort of special treatment or consideration. That would be dishonest.

I also acknowledge that any hometown airline will get better treatment than others.

 

[canyonblue]

But don't say that the LCCs have never had any sort of special treatment or consideration.

I hope SWA gets special treatment. An airline that pays the rent, brings passengers to the airports by the millions to save these airports rearends. Yea, I expect them to kiss butt, name something after Herb Kelleher, and thank the airline gods that SWA flies out of their airport. We have earned airport capital, and we intend to spend it!

 

[N1atEcon]

"legacies paying the costs of PDC/ACARS"

WTF

That is a service your airline choose to use, to make life easier for you. If SWA (or the other airlines) used PDC at LAX it wouldn't change the cost of the service.

 

[Mugs]

Yeah, that must be it. LCC carriers getting a free ride explains why we have been making money. Try fuel hedging, 1 or 2 types of aircraft, etc. Oh i forgot, we dont pay for our fuel or airplanes or mx. Airbus pays for it.

Now I am sure you will knock our pay. After my latest checking we make more than a UAL 320 Capt. and Airways 320 Capt. Even more in career earnings than a AMR 757 Capt. I am now sure that you will say we lowered the bar. B.S.!!! If we lowered the bar why did UAL and Airways pilots go to rates below ours and not just match them even?

I say again what Gordon Bethune said not long ago: "I could easily compete with the LCCs if I could fire everyone every five years and start over."

We will just see how it goes when your cost structure matures. For now, relax and enjoy yourself.

 

[JohnQ]

"legacies paying the costs of PDC/ACARS"

WTF

That is a service your airline choose to use, to make life easier for you. If SWA (or the other airlines) used PDC at LAX it wouldn't change the cost of the service.

My point was: the only reason that SWA can get away with NOT using PDC/ACARS is because other carriers enable them. That is, if all carriers did not use PDC/ACARS, think of the "fun" SWA (and everyone else) would have all trying to get clearances the "old fashioned" way. As it is, it is no problem for SWA--and then you brag about "low costs."

Don't get me wrong. You guys run a great operation, and PDC/no PDC is not the make or break issue here. It IS a good example of SWA achieving "low costs" and "efficiency" only because other carriers have paved a nice smooth road for them.

 

[Mugs]

"legacies paying the costs of PDC/ACARS"

WTF

That is a service your airline choose to use, to make life easier for you. If SWA (or the other airlines) used PDC at LAX it wouldn't change the cost of the service.

Can you imagine trying to chime in on clearance delivery at any busy airport if nobody had ACARS?

 

[LearLove]

a320, n1 and others....


Me reply wasn't to start a "JB not paying mx" or to imply a "free ride" by LCC I'll take that back. God knows we've been down that road. What I was trying to say is that as we know (and I wish I could site specific examples) is that new entrant carriers (in most cases lately LCC) do get a break on the "bills" at new airports.

 

[TexaSWA]

"getting a free ride"

Please explain how a LCC is getting a free ride?

I am not hostile to the LCCs, as are many. I do not feel that a LCC pilot "owes" a legacy pilot anything. We live in a capitalist society, last time I checked. That said, the LCCs have got many allowances that the legacies have not.

1. It is SWA not using PDCs for their clearances so as to "cut costs"--as if ANY flight could get a clearance at LAX except for the legacies paying the costs of PDC/ACARS--so as to allow the SWAs of the world to not pay for it--then crow about their low costs.

2. It is David Neeleman petitioning the Port Authority of NY/NJ for slots at JFK so as to "serve upstate NY"--even though that never was nor ever will be the primary thrust of JetBlue. But hey, you got the slots!

3. It is David Neeleman actually having the gall to complain about "predatory pricing" by the legacy airlines daring to defend their turf. No doubt a sympathetic congressman was lending his ears.

4. It is the city of Wichita giving cash payments to Airtran so as to encourage them to fly to ICT.

5. It is the FAA looking the other way when Delta could not fly their old DC-9s due to Heavy Maintence Visit requirements--and then ValuJet got a waiver from the HMV requirement on the same airplanes after Delta sold them!

6. It is the cherry-picking of routes, leaving the Valdosta Georgias and Portland Maines in the cold (no pun intended). It is the never-had-a-pension airline, much less terminating one.

Don't get me wrong. The LCCs for the most part run a tight ship, and have great employee groups who still think the airlines are there to serve the pax, and not the other way around. (Believe it or not I actually once had a captain tell me that he wished we had fewer passengers so as to make it easier to nonrev). But don't say that the LCCs have never had any sort of special treatment or consideration. That would be dishonest.

I also acknowledge that any hometown airline will get better treatment than others.

These are not "breaks" given to LCCs. They are smart business decisions made by those who run them.

As far as clearances at busy airports w/o ACARS... WTF do you think people did before ACARS? Thats a pretty thin argument Mugs. Almost comical. Say it outloud and listen how rediculous you sound.

 

[SWA/FO]

What is PDC? I thought we got our clearances the "old fashion way" still?

 

[AA717driver]

Before ACARS PDC's ORD worked ok with AA, UA, ARW, Eagle and the rest. You just got real quick on the mic key.

The legacies are losing money because of infrastructure, a mature workforce and, generally, ineffecient union contracts.

The LCC's are making money because of virtually no infrastructure, new workforce, homogenous fleets and incidentals like hedging, service incentives and lower mx costs. JMO.TC

 

[canyonblue]

It IS a good example of SWA achieving "low costs" and "efficiency" only because other carriers have paved a nice smooth road for them.

Cluless. We wrote the book on efficiency, too bad none of you can read.

 

[SWA/FO]

What is a PDC? Is that something I can catch from a F/a on an overnight? Is there a cure for it?

 

[Mugs]

These are not "breaks" given to LCCs. They are smart business decisions made by those who run them.

As far as clearances at busy airports w/o ACARS... WTF do you think people did before ACARS? Thats a pretty thin argument Mugs. Almost comical. Say it outloud and listen how rediculous you sound.

Gee Tex,

W(ho)TF taught you to spell ridiculous, a redneck? Is that almost comical too? Not even close. PDC over ACARS has been available for quite a while. With the growth in the number of flights over just the last 10 years, every little bit of streamlining helps. Plus, it is one less aggravation for all involved and reduces the chances for a readback error that isn't caught. That was the only point I was making. By the way, if anyone can afford ACARS it is SWA. Are they planning on getting it fleet-wide soon?

 

[capt. megadeth]

I hope SWA gets special treatment. An airline that pays the rent, brings passengers to the airports by the millions to save these airports rearends. Yea, I expect them to kiss butt, name something after Herb Kelleher, and thank the airline gods that SWA flies out of their airport. We have earned airport capital, and we intend to spend it!

Nice attitude. Reminds me of United.