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The Passion

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RightPedal

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2002
Posts
841
I took this from another forum. It's not ment to start another religious debate, but I guess it surely will. I have high hopes for this film to open our eye's to the absolute truth of what is to come.

Paul Harvey's words:
I really did not know what to expect. I was thrilled to have been
invited to a private viewing of Mel Gibson's film "The Passion," but had also read all the cautious articles and spin. I grew up in a Jewish town and owe much of my own faith journey to the influence. I have a life long, deeply held aversion to anything that might even indirectly encourage any form of anti-Semitic thought, language or actions.

I arrived at the private viewing for "The Passion," held in Washington, DC and greeted some familiar faces. The environment was typically Washingtonian, with people greeting you with a smile but seeming to look beyond you, having an agenda beyond the words. The film was very briefly introduced, without fanfare, and then the room darkened. From the gripping opening scene in the Garden of Gethsemane, to the very human and tender portrayal of the earthly ministry of Jesus, through the betrayal, the arrest, the scourging, the way of the cross, the encounter with the thieves, the surrender on the Cross, until the final scene in the empty tomb, this was not simply a movie; it was an encounter, unlike anything I have ever experienced.

In addition to being a masterpiece of film-making and an artistic
triumph, "The Passion" evoked more deep reflection, sorrow and emotional reaction within me than anything since my wedding, my ordination or the birth of my children. Frankly, I will never be the same. When the film concluded, this "invitation only" gathering of "movers and shakers" in Washington, DC were shaking indeed, but this time from sobbing. I am not sure there was a dry eye in the place. The crowd that had been glad-handing before the film was now eerily silent. No one could speak because words were woefully inadequate. We had experienced a kind of art
that is a rarity in life, the kind that makes heaven touch earth.

One scene in the film has now been forever etched in my mind. A
brutalized, wounded Jesus was soon to fall again under the weight of the cross. His mother had made her way along the Via Della Rosa. As she ran to him, she flashed back to a memory of Jesus as a child, falling in the dirt road outside of their home. Just as she reached to protect him from the fall, she was now reaching to touch his wounded adult face. Jesus looked at her with intensely probing and passionately loving eyes (and at all of us through the screen) and said "Behold I make all things new." These are words taken from the last Book of the New Testament, the Book of Revelations. Suddenly, the purpose of the pain was so clear and the wounds, that earlier in the film had been so difficult to see in His face, His back, indeed all over His body, became intensely beautiful. They had been borne voluntarily for love.

At the end of the film, after we had all had a chance to recover, a
question and answer period ensued. The unanimous praise for the film, from a rather diverse crowd, was as astounding as the compliments were effusive. The questions included the one question that seems to follow this film, even though it has not yet even been released. "Why is this film considered by some to be 'anti-Semitic?" Frankly, having now experienced (you do not "view" this film) "the Passion" it is a question that is impossible to answer. A law professor whom I admire sat in front
of me. He raised his hand and responded "After watching this film, I do not understand how anyone can insinuate that it even remotely presents that the Jews killed Jesus. It doesn't." He continued "It made me realize that my sins killed Jesus" I agree. There is not a scintilla of anti-Semitism to be found anywhere in this powerful film. If there were, I would be among the first to decry it. It faithfully tells the Gospel story in a dramatically beautiful, sensitive and profoundly engaging way. Those who are alleging otherwise have either not seen the film or have another agenda behind their protestations. This is not a "Christian" film, in the sense that it will appeal only to those who identify themselves as followers of Jesus Christ. It is a deeply human,
beautiful story that will deeply touch all men and women. It is a
profound work of art. Yes, its producer is a Catholic Christian and
thankfully has remained faithful to the Gospel text; if that is no
longer acceptable behavior than we are all in trouble. History demands that we remain faithful to the story and Christians have a right to tell it. After all, we believe that it is the greatest story ever told and that its message is for all men and women. The greatest right is the right to hear the truth.

We would all be well advised to remember that the Gospel narratives to which "The Passion" is so faithful were written by Jewish men who followed a Jewish Rabbi whose life and teaching have forever changed the history of the world. The problem is not the message but those who have distorted it and used it for hate rather than love. The solution is not to censor the message, but rather to promote the kind of gift of love that is Mel Gibson's filmmaking masterpiece, "The Passion." It should be seen by as many people as possible. I intend to do everything I can to make sure that is the case.
I am passionate about "The Passion."
 
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MORE religious posts? Are you colluding with Timebuilder to get his posts up over 4000? :p
 
LoL, No collusion with Timebuilder.
I have a lot of respect for old Paul Harvey, he's always been my favorite journalist/commentator.
I sure don't want to see another flaming debate about the Bible or anything like that. Like I said, I have high hopes for this movie to be a real eye opener for us all. I hope all unbelievers, jew and gentile alike will go see it, if for nothing else to gain fuel for the fight. Only time will tell.
 
RightPedal said:
LoL, No collusion with Timebuilder.
I have a lot of respect for old Paul Harvey, he's always been my favorite journalist/commentator.
I sure don't want to see another flaming debate about the Bible or anything like that. Like I said, I have high hopes for this movie to be a real eye opener for us all. I hope all unbelievers, jew and gentile alike will go see it, if for nothing else to gain fuel for the fight. Only time will tell.

If you don't want to spark a religious debate then why post it here? Go find a bible board.
 
RightPedal said:
We would all be well advised to remember that the Gospel narratives to which "The Passion" is so faithful were written by Jewish men who followed a Jewish Rabbi ...

While technically true I don't see how we are all "well advised to remember" it. Needless to say the vast majority of Jews didn't accept the messianic premise of Jesus. When a new religion springs from a previous one it obviously believes it's the "true" faith. This is one of the obvious sources of anti-semitism.

Note: I haven't seen The Passion but I have no reason to believe it or Gibson are in any way anti-semitic. As for Mel Gibson's father, well...

Dude
 
Why do I get a feeling this movie will be one of the top producing movies of all time just because its getting so much publicity? You cant go anywhere without it being talked about, and how many movies actually get the popes attention. I like Mel Gibson, hes a good actor, and I have no doubts the movie will be pretty good as well.

Anyone going to see The Passion? I'm going next Saturday night, if anyone goes before then post a review. I know those 2 movie reviews just gave it a great review.
 
Re: Re: The Passion

Two points. Two shall be the number and the number shall be two. First:

TWA Dude said:
While technically true I don't see how we are all "well advised to remember" it. Needless to say the vast majority of Jews didn't accept the messianic premise of Jesus.
Truth is not determined by a popularity contest, poll numbers or public opinion.
TWA Dude said:
When a new religion springs from a previous one it obviously believes it's the "true" faith. This is one of the obvious sources of anti-semitism.
The second point is this:

Obviously in the first case, but far from logical in your connection to the second. And third - THREE! Three points there shall be, no more, no less!
TWA Dude said:
I have no reason to believe it or Gibson are in any way anti-semitic. As for Mel Gibson's father, well...
I thought we established that sons are not responsible for the sins of their fathers, did we not?

(Apologies to Monty Python)
 
P.S. I get to watch it a night before it opens as an invitation to the churches in my area to be able to minister to people that see it on the 25th and following. This theatre was kind enough to let us set up tables and literature and to speak to people about the film. The first week is completely sold out in two simultaneous showings.

The other theatre finally agreed to show the Passion, but they will not let anyone solicit in the Mall, so the churches are not invited.

I will probably not be able to see all of it because of my vicarious aversion to pain, but my 14 year old son told me he'd be able to describe it all for me afterward. My whole family is going with about a dozen other church members from our church. Our church will be scheduled to pull duty on both Saturday showings and I'll be participating at one or the other.

Jesus Christ is about changing lives, and this movie has already changed lives as Mel Gibson brings Christ closer to us in a culturally relevant fashion.
 
Re: Re: Re: The Passion

Super 80 said:
Truth is not determined by a popularity contest, poll numbers or public opinion.

Yes, but as for religious beliefs the "truths" tend to contradict.

Obviously in the first case, but far from logical in your connection to the second.

If I wasn't clear I'll elaborate. Christianity sprang from Judaism and obviously feels that it's "truth" supercedes Jewish beliefs. In certain ignorant and/or evil minds the result is anti-semitism and religious persecution.

I thought we established that sons are not responsible for the sins of their fathers, did we not?

Yes, we did. Please note that I said nothing critical of Mel Gibson. He could've done a better job of dissociating himself from his father's misguided opinion, however.

Dude
 
Note to moderator:

Maybe you guys should create a forum titled "Religion/Republican Agenda" so we can keep the General board about aviation. Just my .02 but it seems like this forum is being taken over by off topic posts.
 
Jesus

Note to MW44, last I looked pilots were still human, and part of the human condition is the spiritual aspect of life. I think religion is just as much a part of aviation as God's G. :)

TWA Dude said:
Yes, but as for religious beliefs the "truths" tend to contradict.
While this may be abstruse, the truth is despite belief. No amount of faith, no matter how fervent or heart-felt will change what actually did occur.
TWA Dude said:
If I wasn't clear I'll elaborate. Christianity sprang from Judaism and obviously feels that it's "truth" supercedes Jewish beliefs. In certain ignorant and/or evil minds the result is anti-semitism and religious persecution.
Actually as a Christian, just as the earliest Jews, I belief Jesus was in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy. If you would like to examine all the prophecy in the Tanach and see if it applies to the life of Jesus, then I can do that with you.
TWA Dude said:
Yes, we did. Please note that I said nothing critical of Mel Gibson. He could've done a better job of dissociating himself from his father's misguided opinion, however.
How can he honor his father as commanded by God if he is publicly critical of him? Does that not dishonor his father by having his son correct him in public? I say this is a private manner, and it would not be moral of Mel Gibson to disassociate himself from his own father either in public or in private if his father insists upon clinging to prejudicial views.

Mel Gibson’s father is a red-herring in this case anyway. He did not write, produce or direct this picture or have anything to do with its distribution or advertisement. This movie in no way subscribes to an anti-Semitic attitude or prejudice, nor can this passion play be said to fan the flames of anti-Semitism. Attacking the Passion because of comments by Mel Gibson's father is just a feint for the actual objection of the protester put forth in a way meant to discredit the movie’s subject and theme.
 
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Re: Jesus

Super 80 said:
While this may be abstruse, the truth is despite belief. No amount of faith, no matter how fervent or heart-felt will change what actually did occur.

Good point. So what actually did occur? We've gone round and round on this. Neither of were there so all we have to go on are what writings we believe in.

If you would like to examine all the prophecy in the Tanach and see if it applies to the life of Jesus, then I can do that with you.


Thank you for the kind offer but as you know my religious beliefs interpret the prophecies quite differently than yours.

How can he honor his father as commanded by God if he is publicly critical of him? Does that not dishonor his father by having his son correct him in public? I say this is a private manner, and it would not be moral of Mel Gibson to disassociate himself from his own father either in public or in private if his father insists upon clinging to prejudicial views.

Lemme pose this example: is the son of murderer violating a Commandment by condemning his father's evil ways? I think not. I believe G-d can understand when a father isn't deserving of honor. And BTW I referred to Mel disassociating himself from his father's opinion, not the man himself.

This movie in no way subscribes to an anti-Semitic attitude or prejudice, nor can this passion play be said to fan the flames of anti-Semitism.

I watched Gibson's interview with Barbara Walters. I liked it when Mel stated that if you have a problem with the movie then you don't have a problem with him but with the Gospel. I haven't read the Gospel.

Attacking the Passion because of comments by Mel Gibson's father is just a feint for the actual objection of the protester put forth in a way meant to discredit the movie’s subject and theme.

Where did I attack the movie? Please provide quotes.

In any case I know Mel's father had nothing to do with the movie. Heck, before Walters mentioned it I wasn't even aware of his comments. But make no mistake, for a person to claim that the Holocaust numbers were "exaggerated" is anti-semitic indeed. All Mel had to say was that he didn't think Holocaust numbers (which are incidentally backed up by voluminous amounts of evidence) were exaggerated. Incidentally I recall a study in the last few years suggesting that the six million Jewish dead number might be too low.

Dude
 
I knew you guys would have all of the fun that's possible without a topical comment from me.

Please, continue. :)
 
MW44 said:
Note to moderator:

Maybe you guys should create a forum titled "Religion/Republican Agenda" so we can keep the General board about aviation. Just my .02 but it seems like this forum is being taken over by off topic posts.

i agree. this has gotten out of hand. i have donated to this board the last two times we were asked for donations. it may have not been much, but if these threads keep coming up i don't think i want to contribute anymore. i think bibleinfo.com should be a more suitable name.

i know some will say just don't read these threads, but seriously what business do they have here? at least AA pilot story had merit.
 
i know some will say just don't read these threads, but seriously what business do they have here? at least AA pilot story had merit.

Perhaps the same business as a post complaining about another post that one doesn't like?

Just like life, there are a lot of things that pilots are interested in. Apparently, there are sufficient numbers of pilots here that topics like this crop up occaisionally.

I've seen posts that ask what beer goes best with sex, which FBO's have the most attractive counter personnel, which college should be attended, who has the best BBQ, how to best construct a resume, what to do about traffic vilolations on one's record, and the pros and cons of having tattoos. Now except for the mention of an FBO, none of those really have anything to do with flying. That's fine, because they are all things being kicked around by pilots.

I just skip the ones I think might be of no interest, yet I still support the site, and will continue to do so.
 
Jesus is my copilot!

Yea my buddy J. (JESUS) Gossage, a coworker at this one job, used to ride with me in the co-pilot seat. His nickname was Jesus because he had long hair and a beard. He used to ride with me in my twin to go out and help me do field service work for this company we worked for.

One day at PNE, we had to hold for release for over 20 minutes due to ATC delays. It was hot, so Jesus had the door cracked...I suppose he couldn't miracle us an airconditioner, so we did the best we could.

Finally, we get to taxi to the runway and depart. Jesus had done such a good job with that door on this multiple leg trip, that I didn't give it much thought when I saw him pull the door closed and rotate the handle down, as we taxied out to the runway.

As we were rolling out on the take off, I notice Jesus frantically working the hell out of my door handle. The door had popped open on him. Knowing that the chances of getting the door shut in flight were slim to none, I just called the tower with the abort and told Jesus to quit working the hell out of my door lever.
 

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