The mysteries of the 1973 Jim Croce plane crash. Other questionable celebrity plane crashes in American history.

[belchfire]

cause of buddy holly plane crash - Search Videos

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Aircraft rudder pedal controls may have been faulty.

Gimme a break-even most of the V-tail Bonanza inflight breakups were improper continuation of VFR operation in IFR Conditions.

Anyone who has gone from a VFR pilot to an Instrument Rated pilot will understand. The public, the non-initiated and the arrogant fools who haven't passed an Instrument Checkride may disambiguate and offer all kinds of ignorant bovine excrement.

Buddy Holly Crash Report

Read the Crash Report from the plane crash that took Buddy Holly's life along with Ritchie Valens and the Big Bopper , The Day the Music Died, read on...

fiftiesweb.com

This accident, like so many before it, was caused by the pilot’s decision to undertake a flight in which the likelihood of encountering instrument conditions existed, in the mistaken belief that he could cope with en route instrument weather conditions, without having the necessary familiarization with the instruments in the aircraft and without being properly certificated to fly solely by instruments.

I'm telling you right now that without the proper instrumentation and the skills to fly by that instrumentation as a pilot that earned a not just an Instrument Rating but a Type Rating with steam gauges somewhat more advanced but ultimately not that different from that which were in the old Bonanza you'd be absolutely fracked flying into a dark and cloudy sky with the likely bonus of icing conditions, on that night.

Dead Right There, it's not an abstract gamble, it is the predictable result. Jimmy Doolittle and Charles Lindbergh aren't around any more but even they would tell you the same thing!

Continuing VFR into IFR condition remains a leading cause of General Aviation accidents to this day...

 

[guy_liking_pretty_planes]

I don't understand all that jazz above. I've never found any explanations for any these airplane mishaps that any laymen can understand. I'm not a pilot or a professional airplane expert. Was there any mechanical fault with the aircraft? Was there pilot error? ATC error? Other human error? Why did the Skynyrd plane run out of fuel? In the case of the Skynyrd incident, Aerosmith examined the aircraft for a possible charter flight before Skynyrd got booked. Aerosmith was not impressed according to one account I've read. Steven Tyler inspected the plane beforehand. It seemed that the airplane and the company operating it both were shoddy in appearance. Ronnie Van Zant wanted to fly on that clunker anyway and took a number of his staffers to their deaths with him. It seems that in a number of music celebrity airplane deaths, the musicians were in a hurry and wanted to press on fast. Croce was in a hurry to get home to his family after taking a beating on the road. Holly was sick and tired of that damn bus that had mechanical issues including no heat in the cold weather. He obviously did not want to spend money on a nice limousine for road travel or could not afford it even given the newfound success of his late 1950's records. It seems as that some musicians once were either cheap about spending money on good modern transportation or were too poor to travel commercial airlines or have a fancy private jet. Some richer celebrities own modern private planes and hire credible private pilots. There are very good prop airplanes too like the Beechcraft King Air 350 with twin turbo power. Many piston aircraft were death traps. Many of these music celebrity types were just not safety conscious back in the day. Steve Tyler is indeed safety conscious for a rocker.

 

[belchfire]

Okay, have you ever had vertigo or other experience (even sea sickness) where what your inner ear equilibrium did not agree with what your eyes are telling you?

Here's a link that explains Spacial Disorientation far better than I can and it is certainly the cause of the Buddy Holley accident. Instrument Flight Rule conditions prevailed that night and while the Bonanza was most certainly not a deathtrap when operated properly, taking off into the clouds without an Instrument Rating will turn any aircraft into a coffin!

https://www.faasafety.gov/files/notices/2014/Dec/SA17_Spatial_Disorientation.pdf

Lots of people have died from continuing Visually into Instrument conditions. One of the last "famous" people to do just that was the Kennedy who killed himself and one or two others crashing off of Martha's Vineyard...not that he couldn't have found someone qualified to operate the airplane for him or couldn't afford a charter mind you.

Most recently it was Kobe Bryant et. al. when their pilot-in a modern, twin turboshaft powered and fully instrument capable helicopter mind you-continued VFR into Instrument conditions and the Earth rose and smote them for the transgression.

2020 Calabasas helicopter crash - Wikipedia

Something you do not seem to understand is summed up neatly by an old quote-frequently seen on a picture of some kind of WWI biplane stuck in a giant oak tree...

"Aviation in and of itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater extent than the Sea it is terribly unforgiving of any Carelessness, Incapacity or Neglect."

Ah, here it is!

WWI "Plane in a Tree" Large Poster | CafePress

Shop WWI "Plane in a Tree" Large Poster designed by Check-Six. Lots of different size and color combinations to choose from. ✓Free Returns ✓High Quality Printing ✓Fast Shipping

www.cafepress.com

 

[guy_liking_pretty_planes]

Okay, have you ever had vertigo or other experience (even sea sickness) where what your inner ear equilibrium did not agree with what your eyes are telling you?

Here's a link that explains Spacial Disorientation far better than I can and it is certainly the cause of the Buddy Holley accident. Instrument Flight Rule conditions prevailed that night and while the Bonanza was most certainly not a deathtrap when operated properly, taking off into the clouds without an Instrument Rating will turn any aircraft into a coffin!

https://www.faasafety.gov/files/notices/2014/Dec/SA17_Spatial_Disorientation.pdf

Lots of people have died from continuing Visually into Instrument conditions. One of the last "famous" people to do just that was the Kennedy who killed himself and one or two others crashing off of Martha's Vineyard...not that he couldn't have found someone qualified to operate the airplane for him or couldn't afford a charter mind you.

Most recently it was Kobe Bryant et. al. when their pilot-in a modern, twin turboshaft powered and fully instrument capable helicopter mind you-continued VFR into Instrument conditions and the Earth rose and smote them for the transgression.

2020 Calabasas helicopter crash - Wikipedia

Something you do not seem to understand is summed up neatly by an old quote-frequently seen on a picture of some kind of WWI biplane stuck in a giant oak tree...

"Aviation in and of itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater extent than the Sea it is terribly unforgiving of any Carelessness, Incapacity or Neglect."

Ah, here it is!

WWI "Plane in a Tree" Large Poster | CafePress

Shop WWI "Plane in a Tree" Large Poster designed by Check-Six. Lots of different size and color combinations to choose from. ✓Free Returns ✓High Quality Printing ✓Fast Shipping

www.cafepress.com

Sounds like the pilot was unqualified to fly the Holley flight under those weather conditions in 1959. Did he not have a working pitch and roll gauge on his dash? Earth down, blue sky up? Altimeter? Compass? Charles Lindbergh successfully crossed the Atlantic with only an altimeter and a compass for navigation. How's that for old-fashioned IFR?

 

[belchfire]

I am not sure what the requirements for flight by reference to instruments only were in 1959, however an altimeter and compass are not the minimum to keep the Earth from rising and smiting thee...

Yes, the compass is required and yes, you need a sensitive (able to read 20 foot increments as defined by the FAA) altimeter, one requires at a minimum a gyroscopic turn coordinator and as a luxury item a gyro compass. A gyroscopic artificial horizon (pitch and roll gauge you referred to?) was not originally a requirement but I'm not sure about 1959.

I do know from the "partial panel" practice that I did during my initial training (before multi-functional displays and Garmin GPS Whatever Number they are up to now) that after losing an artificial horizon it is possible to keep an airplane right side up with a whisky compass, altimeter and turn coordinator but you absolutely need that one gyroscopic instrument (turn coordinator) to survive.

In the instrument qualified aircraft of the day while other gyroscopic indicators were usually powered by vacuum sources, typically the last-ditch, absolutely must have turn coordinator was powered electrically. Lose the electrical, well, you still should have and artificial horizon and gyro compass. Lose the electrical system and you lose the turn coordinator.

Redundancy is key to life and it is what ultimately brought (as bad as it was) the crew of Apollo 13 back home to a safe splashdown...

Thus, even an aircraft that you described earlier as a death trap had redundancy established. Were the expectations the same in 1959 as they are now? Oh hell no! Those poor people couldn't have even imagined a flip phone let alone the latest Samsung or I-phone!

Yes, the pilot was not qualified to handle the flight in question regardless of how the aircraft was equiped. It was a sad but predictable outcome...

As far as I know the only gyro on the Spirit of St. Louis was the turn coordinator. For a primary compass the Spirit was equipped with an Earth Inductor compass and I believe no gyro compass was installed...

scroll through the pictures of the Spirit of St. Louis in Washington, DC-

Ryan NYP Spirit of St. Louis | National Air and Space Museum

airandspace.si.edu

Charles Lindbergh was a frelling genius...