The Important Stuff

[gutshotdraw]

When you think this career is a problem in your life, consider what is really important.

Think good thoughts for the son, wife and daughter of one of our NJA colleagues:

http://www.news4jax.com/news/22973859/detail.html

 

[Pervis]

These cops knew there were hostages and blindly fired into the vehicle? I pray for a speedy recovery for those injured, and enough to retire on for the whole family, for generations to come.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I'm usually a strong supporter of Police but I have some questions on that score myself...

 

[Jack Campbell]

Another case of over-zealous police officers. I hope they are treated the same way by the law that a civilian would in similar circumstances. If history is any gauge, the department will cover for them, quietly pay the family a few thousand dollars and let the offending officers go back to work. After all, they were "just doing their jobs".

 

[Hawker800]

Any of you ever been in such a position before as those police officers were?

 

[jonjuan]

Apparently a family member disagrees with you (as well as 99% of everyone else who left a comment)

"To Soccermom and all who maybe concern about Lil Daniel, his mom and family during this unbelievable traumatic time.
Daniel need all the prayers that you can offer for him, though he is stable, he is still consider critical as he is no worse but no better, its just a watch and wait situation to see how gradually he will be able to start doing anything on his own. He also has to undergo another surgery tomorrow on his arm.

"For all those who believe the police did their job, well you just try put yourself in Jo-ann's situation with herself and children in the vehicle screaming for their lives as bullets coming from all angles at them with an already dead hijacker hanging on to her by the door and bullets are flying nonstop. The hell that our family is going through right now is unexplainable.. and for you all to write here and try to justify and go back and forth with each other about your so call take on what would have if police hadnt done this .. instead of using this time to pray for Daniel to pull through this.. this is why the family has not made any comment as yet.. we are only concern for Daniel right now!!!

May god forgive those who think that an innocent toddler deserves this just to get one bad guy who never as much as fired 1 shot!!!"

 

[fischman]

Any of you ever been in such a position before as those police officers were?

No, and that doesn't justify putting THAT MUCH fire to a car full of innocent civilians.

If that were my son laying on that hospital bed, they would need security for those officers.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

And for what?



For a little bit of money.



There's more to life than a little money, you know.



Don'tcha know that?



And here ya are.



And it's a beautiful day.

 

[Dooker]

And for what?



For a little bit of money.



There's more to life than a little money, you know.



Don'tcha know that?



And here ya are.



And it's a beautiful day.

Joel and Ethan Coen. Greatness.

 

[jonjuan]

Joel and Ethan Coen. Greatness.

AS$clown. Great way to change the topic of the thread.

 

[Mike Jenvey]

It seems that the youngster is out of hospital - & officers are back on duty.......... 3 "on the streets" & 2 on desk duty.

How can anyone justify 42 shots into a vehicle with possible hostages - let alone the risks to bystanders? Incredible.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Any of you ever been in such a position before as those police officers were?

We aren't police officers. Doesn't matter.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Glad to hear the boy is apparently out of the woods, at least physically. There will be long-lasting psychological scars for him as well as his sister and mother. I'm not a huge fan of personal injury lawsuits because they are frequently money-grabbing scams. But this time, I'd like to see Dad in the back of the airplane with his family instead of working in the front after the settlement.

 

[errrriiic]

Looks like the biological Dad is not the crewmember and lives in Jamaica.

 

[Hawker800]

Glad to hear the child is better. Prayers worked.

I am not defending the shoot don't shoot decision of those officers. Was not there. None of them got out of bed that day intending to shoot that child or anyone else. The robber made the choice to commit the robbery, he then made the choice to keep going instead of surrender when he saw the cops. It could have ended right there if he had with no one hurt. He chose that family.

As to the amount of rounds fired, the weapons carried by officers have anywhere from 12 to 16 in them depending on make and model. Those guns can be very easily fired dry in less than 3 seconds. Especially in such a situation when adrenalin is pumping.

This will be investigated by FDLE and maybe FBI. If wrong they will answer for it. They may be cleared also.

If they had allowed the car to leave and that family be wiped out by the bad guy, everyone here would raise hell why did the cops let him escape. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

No winners in this people. None.

Good Day.

 

[gutshotdraw]

No winners in this people. None.

I agree with most of what you said except the above. I hate to be cynical but there will be a couple winners: the lawyers that get to litigate this incident.

 

[Dooker]

AS$clown. Great way to change the topic of the thread.

It was a dumb thread.

 

[jonjuan]

Glad to hear the child is better. Prayers worked.

I am not defending the shoot don't shoot decision of those officers. Was not there. None of them got out of bed that day intending to shoot that child or anyone else. The robber made the choice to commit the robbery, he then made the choice to keep going instead of surrender when he saw the cops. It could have ended right there if he had with no one hurt. He chose that family.

As to the amount of rounds fired, the weapons carried by officers have anywhere from 12 to 16 in them depending on make and model. Those guns can be very easily fired dry in less than 3 seconds. Especially in such a situation when adrenalin is pumping.

This will be investigated by FDLE and maybe FBI. If wrong they will answer for it. They may be cleared also.

If they had allowed the car to leave and that family be wiped out by the bad guy, everyone here would raise hell why did the cops let him escape. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

No winners in this people. None.

Good Day.

Wrongo...There's absolutely ZERO reason for pumping over 40 rounds (and who the fu^& cares if 16 rounds can be dry fired in 3 seconds) into a car, despite your "if they allowed the car to leave and the bad guy killed them anyway" crap. This is as obvious as the Rodney King case, but you want to say "You haven't yet seen the police side of the story." He never brandished a gun or fired a single round. Are you really this stupid? These guys and the city/pd will be crucified. As Fischman said, "If that were my son laying on that hospital bed, they would need security for those officers."

 

[Hawker800]

Jonjuan:
My friend you are thinking with your emotions right now so I will let the comment about my intelligence go. Fact is everything I mentioned will be a factor in this case so you had better, using your expression, give a f--- about it. You are going to hear it again and again. There is going to be several sides to this including the police and it does not matter if you like it or not. All will be allowed to present in court. If the police are found to be incorrect, then they will be held accountable. Just keep in mind juries are largely unpredictable and this may not go your way.

As I mentioned I am not defending their actions. I am speaking from personal experience.

All the best to you and the family.

 

[Mike Jenvey]

Hmmm, looks like a outrageously over the top response to a situation.

From the picture in the initial link, I can see 11 shot holes in the windshield glass - difficult to place the angle of firing & hence the shot directions into the car. From the photo slide-show option, there are 3 separate shot holes (entry or exit?) on the passenger's side window; again, no angle calculations possible.

The press report stated that an officer heard a verbal threat:

Sheriff John Rutherford said the suspect said, "I'm going to kill you," and an officer who was “fairly close to the vehicle” at the scene didn't know if the man was referring to him or the woman driving the car.

Subsequently:

According to Rutherford, after the car was carjacked, five officers responding to the scene fired 42 shots at the car as it drove away, including the officer who shot at the suspect while at Wendy's, two officers as the car drove off and two officers as the car drove over the median in the road.

Rutherford said the officer fired a shotgun at the suspect before he got into the car, forced the woman into the passenger seat and began driving away.

Now, it doesn't state it as such, but it seems very likely that the first officer may have fired first considering (in a split second) possible loss of life consequences. A thought - unless the shotgun had a "low injury" cartridge/charge, then that on its own was a huge risk to others close-by - & the officer missed!

However, the remaining 42 shots were all fired by 4 officers at a moving target with little or no chance for the officers to communicate about the circumstances, the hostage, or other potential occupants of the car. Note that the woman driver was in the passenger seat - how many bullet holes in the windshield & passenger door....??? Also, there seemed to be little regard for the safety of any bystanders, etc.

So, first shot, probable good call - but lousy shooting.

All remaining shots = excessive force, hugely dangerous to the public & not warranted.


[Oh, a national-level shooting instructor & assessor, who last handled a Glock in Niagara Falls late last year. Ex-military, with live-arm requirements & lots of hand gun competitions]