the hores are out!

[starvingcfi]

"That's when the whores come out. Prancin' around and shakin' their little bee-hinds."

haha. i love that quote

 

[CatYaaak]

What makes me sick is you people that come in and say you'll work for practically nothing and do anything to fly because you have no shame. [/B]

Agreed Airspeed. As an ex-corporate/current airline guy who spent 9 months on furlough last year before being hired by a new company, the one thing I never considered was going out and screwing the cororate guys by undercutting the going market rates for contract pilots. It's the height of hypocricy for a major airline furloughee to whine about how they are being "undercut" by regional pilots because they fly for less, while at the same time hoe-ing themselves out in a different sector of commercial flying.

The irony seems completely lost on them; that these mostly union-members, who understandibly go ballistic at what scabs do and the downward pressure on wages they have, are essentially doing the same thing. They have been so brainwashed into believing that the "market rate" for pilot services is driven soley by what a union negotiates in a contract, that upon entering a union-free sector of aviation, they believe that no rate exists at all. This is convenient, for it allows them to remain "guilt-free" in their own minds. No unions = no blacklists to worry about no matter what you do.

Chalk it up to ignorance. The majority of major airline pilots have no idea to the real nature of true corporate flying (confusing it wih charter, fractionals, etc), and the vast majority are completely clueless when it comes to Independent Contract flying, the going rates for acting as PIC/SIC on different types of equipment, or where to find out what they are in the first place.

When I was the Chief Pilot for a small corporate operation and occasionally needed a standby SIC, there were a few airline guys around offering to do it for amounts like $200 a day, when the going rate back then for that type of aircraft in the right seat was twice that amount. Frankly, I found it insulting to the profession that they figured the job (and consequently my passengers) were worth so little, so needless to say they were shown the door, and a couple of 1500 hr. line service personnel working for the FBO we were based at got the training and right seat check-outs in their first jet instead. They were paid the $400 per day while out on a trip, whether flying or sitting in the hotel. That's just the way it works.

I promise you airspeed, you didn't see me out there hoe-ing myself when I was furloughed, nor will you if it happens again.

 

[LR25]

Good post Airspeed.

I dont think its flame bait at all, this is a valid concern.

JJ doesnt understand that the reason that "regional" pilots make less money is becuase of this excact thing.

Why should a regional airline give more money, if another regional is paying half what they are paying there people.

Sure, you can eventually make a descent wage at a regional, but it doesnt hold a candle to what some mainliners make.

But, I think things are going to be different in the future thanks to the RJ revolution.

 

[JumpJetter]

First, please go back and read the very first post. As usual almost every thread on this board diverts on to a completely different subject. Now, I did start it. Funny sarcasm does not come across well on this board. It’s pretty much impossible to do unless you are a very good writer, which I’m not.

The very first post is either flame or a guy who is generally frustrated. He sees his work basically being “whored out” (his words) to someone or others who are willing to do it for far less money. Is that not why airlines are increasingly using Regional Jets? I was trying to draw a parallel (although in hindsight my sarcastic flame did not “make the leap”) between more RJs flying routes that mainline jets used to fly. If RJ pilots where paid on a scale that mainline pilots make (WHICH THEY DESERVE!) would the regional carriers or the mainline operate the RJs? Or would they be operated at all?

I, like I’m sure many others, took a regional airline job for the hours, with hopes of getting on with a major airline. And it worked. I’m as guilty as any. What regional pilots are paid (especially starting pay) is ridiculous. While I was flying at the regional, a unionized group of city bus drivers where on strike because of pay and benefit complaints. These guys started at 55K a year!! Now, they had to work in a big, expensive city, but give me a break! Almost anybody can figure out a bus in a matter of minutes (somebody will disagree I’m sure). Airline pilots are probably the most regulated employee group in the nation. Think of all the sacrifices you made (and continue to make) in pay, time away from family etc., to get that first 121 job. You/WE deserve more.

Now, it’s never gonna happen. IMHO. We just love to fly too much. People will do it for free. Especially, if they can get the experience that may eventually land them a job where they get paid what they deserve!

Anyway, I guess my case is, it’s frustrating to not be able to make a “living wage” given your experience, training, knowledge and skills. In fact after furlough, I did not seek to return to the regional airline. The pay is just too low. I found other things to do.

Have a nice day.

 

[Typhoon1244]

As usual almost every thread on this board diverts on to a completely different subject. Now, I did start it. Funny sarcasm does not come across well on this board. It’s pretty much impossible to do unless you are a very good writer, which I’m not.

Apology accepted.

If RJ pilots where paid on a scale that mainline pilots make (WHICH THEY DESERVE!) would the regional carriers or the mainline operate the RJs? Or would they be operated at all?

Good questions. I think RJ's would probably exist even if the guys flying them made $90/hour. There were just too many mainline routes where MD-88's were carrying nineteen people. If I may draw an analogy from military aviation, it's just like the post-Korea assumption that fighters no longer needed guns. We eventually realized that there will always be a need for an inexpensive, close-in weapon...just as there will always be a need for smaller-capacity jets/turboprops.

We wouldn't even be talking about this if Delta (for example) had bought RJ's instead of ASA and Comair. Of course, I'd probably also be out of a job right now...

 

[501261]

"When I was the Chief Pilot for a small corporate operation and occasionally needed a standby SIC, there were a few airline guys around offering to do it for amounts like $200 a day, when the going rate back then for that type of aircraft in the right seat was twice that amount. Frankly, I found it insulting to the profession that they figured the job (and consequently my passengers) were worth so little, so needless to say they were shown the door, and a couple of 1500 hr. line service personnel working for the FBO we were based at got the training and right seat check-outs in their first jet instead. They were paid the $400 per day while out on a trip, whether flying or sitting in the hotel. That's just the way it works."

Great post CatYaaak, I couldn't agree more!!!! Quite frankly I find it insulting to me, my company and our profession by offering to lower your standard!