the gojet/TSA history lesson

[Hamburger]

Nobody cares.

Wrong.

 

[CX880]

You gojet pilots need to make this right. It is very clear that you enabled and assisted management. You undermined the TSA negotiations.

You need to look through the BS and realize that no one is out there to get you, except yourselves. Let's not BS, we all know that management sees us a liability and we see the flying as a means to an end. The moment when you get into what you think you deserve and try to change the owners business practices is when you get in trouble. Hulas didn't owe you anything in 05 especially a big shot contract just because he got a few more crappy RJs. I don't know the exact reason of the vote down in 05 but now in 09 we can safely say that it was a very big mistake because it certainly didn't bring job security. Secure the flying first because then you have something to work of off. Now I ALPO will do what it can and make it seem like a cause, I realize that they will never admit to the mistake because there is principle. But there's principle and there is stupidity. Mesa pilots realised that don't know why TSA didn't. Good luck though.

 

[laserman2431]

Dude, you make me laugh.... and that @ 4:40 am. Lowering us to sub-standard terms & condidtions isn't gonna make things better. It has to do with the fact about drawing a line and not being exploited. I think I am pretty much in touch with reality.

Dornier. I'm having trouble understanding what you're saying. Can you provide a little more explanation? Who do you think lowered you to sub-standard terms & conditions?

 

[Dornier 335]

Let's put some more fuel into the fire

from the Eagle MEC (taken from another bulletin board):

Fellow Furloughed American Eagle Pilots,

It’s in a pilot’s nature to chase flying jobs in pursuit of the perfect job. In fact, our industry model is based on pilots’ moving from carrier to carrier seeking jobs closer to where they live and bigger paychecks.
Traditionally, pilots chased lower-paying jobs from flight instructing to cargo and corporate and then on to regional airlines as they sought better pay and larger airplanes. A job at a major airline was the pinnacle
of many pilots’ careers, with the pay and benefits they had sought for years.
Unfortunately, airline pilot jobs are also, more often than not, subject to the cyclical nature of the airline business and poor management planning. Unlike most careers, moving backward in status and pay is the
unhappy result, or sometimes even the loss of pilot employment through furlough.

Some airline managers have recognized this cycle and have tried to capitalize on it by building a business model around it. One such airline is GoJet Airlines, an alter-ego carrier to Trans States Airlines, whose pilots are represented by ALPA.

GoJet capitalized on pilots’ natural desire to fly larger airplanes by making itself the ultimate “steppingstone” airline: a short-term job that promised fast upgrades while piloting the latest equipment for sub-par pay and work rules. This business model, on the other hand, does not account for pilots who don’t use this job as a stepping-stone.

GoJet was formed as a work-around to the APA’s scope language that revented Trans States Airlines from flying larger aircraft for other code-share partners while they were performing flying under contract as American Connection. Simultaneously, but not coincidentally, the Trans States MEC was negotiating rates of pay for large regional jet aircraft, but those negotiations fizzled as management found a way to whipsaw the pilots and force them to accept substandard pay and working conditions.

GoJet was formed by four Trans States managers who became the initial cadre of pilots. To deflect attention from the substandard working conditions and to attract pilots, these managers eventually petitioned the National Mediation Board and, with the assistance of Trans States management, voted for Teamsters Local 618 to represent them.

What Is Teamsters Local 618?

According to its website, Teamsters Local 618 represents freight carriers, auto dealerships, tank haulers, rent-a-car services, Part Houses, Dial Corporation, parking garages, towing companies, service stations,
chemical companies, tire and rubber industries, flight attendants, and, finally, airline pilots. With 1.4 million members, the 150 GoJet pilots make up less than 1 percent of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters’ constituency. Local 618 airline experience consists solely of their representation of the Trans States flight attendants.

Why would GoJet management desire pilot representation by Local 618 instead of the more experienced and stronger Local 747—the Teamsters local airline council that represents Great Lakes, Cape Air, North American, Gulfstream, Omni, and Republic? Current and former GoJet pilots advise that Local 618 appears too closely connected with TSA management. We seriously question whether there will be very meaningful representation from IBT 618. Yet moving to Local 747 is no longer a clear option for GoJet pilots, since Local 747 has been placed into trusteeship for allegations of officer impropriety and faces the threat of decertification from more than one member employee group.

Life at GoJet

GoJet pilots have characterized life at GoJet as harsh. According to these pilots, much power has been given to check airmen, who obviously have great influence over a pilot’s current and future career.
Additionally, GoJet pilots tell us that many pilots end up with FAA Letters of Investigation (LOIs). We encourage you to ask current and former GoJet pilots why they received these LOIs and whether it was connected in some way to working conditions at GoJet. We encourage you to ask them why pilots have been discharged at GoJet and whether those pilots stood up to or irritated management. It appears that many or most GoJet pilots keep their heads down and hope they get an offer of outside employment while they still have a clean record.

What does this mean to you?
The pilots at Trans States have tried for years to recapture the flying being done by GoJet and to establish pay and working conditions that are on par with their peers. They also need to be assured of future job security as management has moved most of the growth opportunities to GoJet.
As long as pilots continue to chase after sub-par working conditions at airlines like GoJet, it will be more challenging for pilots at other airlines such as Trans States or American Eagle to get the type of contract
that makes flying for a regional airline a meaningful career position, not just a short-term stepping-stone.
The pilots of Trans States desire to achieve job security protections for themselves while addressing the GoJet issue fairly and equitably for all, as this is in the best interest of not only the TSA pilots but the airline industry at large. It takes the support of all ALPA pilots, not just the few.

Despite the fact that you have been furloughed and are looking for other opportunities, the Trans States and American Eagle MECs request that you take the time to make an informed decision prior to applying to GoJet Airlines.

 

[Raskal]

Despite the fact that you have been furloughed and are looking for other opportunities, the Trans States and American Eagle MECs request that you take the time to make an informed decision prior to applying to GoJet Airlines.

Ya know, I don't have a dog in this fight but I've got to say, coming from the union that is a pretty ballsy and arrogant thing to say to a furloughed pilot. Obviously written by a person who is either senior enough to be out of reach from normal furlough or an insensitive youngster who is of means/lives with the parents.

I know what I would respond with if a union used my dues to send me that letter.

 

[superatr]

Ya know, I don't have a dog in this fight but I've got to say, coming from the union that is a pretty ballsy and arrogant thing to say to a furloughed pilot. Obviously written by a person who is either senior enough to be out of reach from normal furlough or an insensitive youngster who is of means/lives with the parents.

I know what I would respond with if a union used my dues to send me that letter.

Well, since it comes from the Membership/Furough Committee Chairman, I guess you are the arrogant one.

 

[ASACRJFlyer]

All I can say about this entire thread (and the point I hope every GoJet pilot takes to heart) is that I hope I end up on a hiring board at a Major someday. Here's a little sample of how the interview will go with an ex GoJetter...

Me: Hey, how are you today? Thanks for taking the time to come interview with us. Let's start with a little about you. Who have you been flying for most recently?

Interviewee: I've been with GoJet for the last (however many) years.

Me: Thanks for stopping by, we'll be in touch... Next...

 

[Raskal]

Well, since it comes from the Membership/Furough Committee Chairman, I guess you are the arrogant one.

Maybe I am.

 

[flyboyzii]

All I can say about this entire thread (and the point I hope every GoJet pilot takes to heart) is that I hope I end up on a hiring board at a Major someday. Here's a little sample of how the interview will go with an ex GoJetter...

Me: Hey, how are you today? Thanks for taking the time to come interview with us. Let's start with a little about you. Who have you been flying for most recently?

Interviewee: I've been with GoJet for the last (however many) years.

Me: Thanks for stopping by, we'll be in touch... Next...

Obviously, with your demeanor that will never happen.

 

[ASACRJFlyer]

Obviously, with your demeanor that will never happen.

The beauty of it is you may be right, I'm probably not cut out to be an interviewer, I'd rather be flying any day. I will guarantee you this, while it may not be me, there will be others with my view towards GoJets who WILL be interviewers, and you know what they say about Karma...

That's one thing I've learned over the course of my life. When people screw others to get ahead, it may not catch up with them today, maybe not tomorrow, but eventually it will catch up to you. GoJetters are definitely screwing the TSA group and it will come back around... Bank on it.

 

[ATA For Now!]

Funny...the guy who interviewd me at United was from (gasp!) Gulfstream. That move really F'ed up his career. He's 43 and been at UA for 16 years. Oh, and he's a checkairman.

 

[ualdriver]

All I can say about this entire thread (and the point I hope every GoJet pilot takes to heart) is that I hope I end up on a hiring board at a Major someday. Here's a little sample of how the interview will go with an ex GoJetter...

Me: Hey, how are you today? Thanks for taking the time to come interview with us. Let's start with a little about you. Who have you been flying for most recently?

Interviewee: I've been with GoJet for the last (however many) years.

Me: Thanks for stopping by, we'll be in touch... Next...

I think there are many pilots who share that opinion. Undoubtedly, some GoJet'er "A" listers will slip through the cracks, but some will not...

 

[CX880]

I think there are many pilots who share that opinion. Undoubtedly, some GoJet'er "A" listers will slip through the cracks, but some will not...

The Gojet "A" listers in 05, are gone and the others were TSA lifers anyways so they will never go anywhere else.

 

[waka]

The beauty of it is you may be right, I'm probably not cut out to be an interviewer, I'd rather be flying any day. I will guarantee you this, while it may not be me, there will be others with my view towards GoJets who WILL be interviewers, and you know what they say about Karma...

That's one thing I've learned over the course of my life. When people screw others to get ahead, it may not catch up with them today, maybe not tomorrow, but eventually it will catch up to you. GoJetters are definitely screwing the TSA group and it will come back around... Bank on it.

That is as ridiculous as me saying; okay Mr. Karma, How about that you TSA'ers are getting your just desserts for "stealing" Eagle flying a while back? How's that for karma?

No, today's Gojetters aren't trying to get ahead and they're certainly not screwing anyone.
Since you GJ bashers like to say that anyone that disagrees with you must fly for GJ, I'll just head you off at the pass. I don't fly for them. I just raise the BS flag when it's due.

 

[Dornier 335]

That is as ridiculous as me saying; okay Mr. Karma, How about that you TSA'ers are getting your just desserts for "stealing" Eagle flying a while back? How's that for karma?

Nobody at Eagle got furloughed because of TSA "stealing" Eagle's routes. Besides, some of the flying was grandfathered from the TWA takeover. What about that karma?

No, today's Gojetters aren't trying to get ahead and they're certainly not screwing anyone.

What planet are you living on? Just look at some of the original backstabbers that crossed the line. I don't seem 'em there. They realized the coolaid they were drinking and went to places like ... (sigh) Skybus. And this attitude hasn't changed! Everybody there just hopes to get the time and get the flying sh!te outta there. How would you stay there with the current amount of LOI?

What coolaid are you drinking or what planet are you living on?

 

[CX880]

What planet are you living on? Just look at some of the original backstabbers that crossed the line. I don't seem 'em there. They realized the coolaid they were drinking and went to places like ... (sigh) Skybus. And this attitude hasn't changed! Everybody there just hopes to get the time and get the flying sh!te outta there. How would you stay there with the current amount of LOI?

What coolaid are you drinking or what planet are you living on?

Those backstabbers knew what was going on, that the pilot no vote was going to be the end of TSA. Sure there's always the personal reason but what pilot doesn't think about his or her interests before the brotherhood's? We're not living in Red North Korea, after all going to GJ was/isn't against any rules and there was no strike, ALPA was even for the CRJ7 airplanes for TSA. And now in 09 GJ is better than TSA with a union. Also what gives you the right to prohibit or harrass someone that wants to go to Skybus or any other place?? If someone can survivie on 30k flying a A319 who cares? Maybe they want to use that time as a stepping stone to something better like some of them tried at Cathay/Emirates, etc. Places like you and me can only dream about seeing here in the states. If you have any say in the matter and are not some of those 05 nutjobs that have moved on yet still preach like it's 05, then do something about it instead of kicking and screaming on internet forums.

 

[waka]

Nobody at Eagle got furloughed because of TSA "stealing" Eagle's routes.

TSA did some flying as American connection when Eagle pilots were furloughed. Enough said.

What planet are you living on? Just look at some of the original backstabbers that crossed the line. I don't seem 'em there. They realized the coolaid they were drinking and went to places like ... (sigh) Skybus. And this attitude hasn't changed! Everybody there just hopes to get the time and get the flying sh!te outta there. How would you stay there with the current amount of LOI?

What coolaid are you drinking or what planet are you living on?

How many times are you going to ask (stupidly) for my resident planet? Normally I would just ignore such idiotic posts but, in case there's actually a chance that you can be convinced to use your own brain instead mindlessly regurgitating someone else's thoughts; What part of "today's Gojetters" do you not understand? Since you seem to be having trouble understanding, I'll break it down for you. That means pilots that hired on after the initial group that left TSA to jump ahead in seniority. That is indeed shameful. However, there is nothing anymore questionable about those that got hired since that time that isn't as questionable as a pilot flying for any other regional. Now, what's the flavor of the Kool-Aid that you're drinking?

 

[WayBack]

TSA Management is the biggest scum bag operation on the planet. But they also knew they were dealing with a union that had no leverage or spine. So they minipulated them and created GoJet.
Maybe if ALPA had some balls, GoJet wouldn't be what it is today.

 

[Dubya]

Mesa sucks. Gojet blows.



W

 

[flyboyzii]

TSA did some flying as American connection when Eagle pilots were furloughed. Enough said.



How many times are you going to ask (stupidly) for my resident planet? Normally I would just ignore such idiotic posts but, in case there's actually a chance that you can be convinced to use your own brain instead mindlessly regurgitating someone else's thoughts; What part of "today's Gojetters" do you not understand? Since you seem to be having trouble understanding, I'll break it down for you. That means pilots that hired on after the initial group that left TSA to jump ahead in seniority. That is indeed shameful. However, there is nothing anymore questionable about those that got hired since that time that isn't as questionable as a pilot flying for any other regional. Now, what's the flavor of the Kool-Aid that you're drinking?

Now don't be putting any kind of logic in their young, tiny little minds. I talked to a 10 year TSA guy and had to shake my head. I mean the mentality of some of these pilots make me shake my head. This guy (and others) CHOSE to stay at this horrible company even when times were good. He and many others CHOSE to stay there.....at TSA. How sad. I mean...have some ambition in life will ya?? Sheeeeeeesh Oh, and before you start bashing me etc.....and I KNOW you TSA'ers will...I say the same thing about all of the "initial" GoJetters that are here and will never leave also.

 

[Salukipilot4590]

Now don't be putting any kind of logic in their young, tiny little minds. I talked to a 10 year TSA guy and had to shake my head. I mean the mentality of some of these pilots make me shake my head. This guy (and others) CHOSE to stay at this horrible company even when times were good. He and many others CHOSE to stay there.....at TSA. How sad. I mean...have some ambition in life will ya?? Sheeeeeeesh Oh, and before you start bashing me etc.....and I KNOW you TSA'ers will...I say the same thing about all of the "initial" GoJetters that are here and will never leave also.

You can blame that on the seniority system...

Once you have seniority somewhere it's kinda hard to just up and leave.

 

[flyboyzii]

I don't believe it is THAT hard to find the INITIATIVE to leave a company such as this at all. That is a poor excuse in my opinion. I wish them the best of luck but this is the last place I would want to retire. I understand what you are saying about the whole seniority thing but c'mon.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Obviously, with your demeanor that will never happen.

Apparently you would be surprised.

The rest of us would say "well, he sure was nice about it."

 

[~~~^~~~]

The Gojet "A" listers in 05, are gone

What was that? What happened to them?

The best thing GoJets pilots could do is seek unity with the TSA pilots. Either that, or be very happy with a GoJets career knowing your Company would alter ego your alter ego when convenient, knowing SkyWest and Republic are a whole lot better at playing this game than Hulas is.

 

[flyboyzii]

What was that? What happened to them?

The best thing GoJets pilots could do is seek unity with the TSA pilots. Either that, or be very happy with a GoJets career knowing your Company would alter ego your alter ego when convenient, knowing SkyWest and Republic are a whole lot better at playing this game than Hulas is.

Uh, I think you mean the best thing TSA pilots could do is seek unity with the GoJet pilots. We have tried and tried to work with them but they, like you and many choose to act like two year olds with a poopy diaper but hey, whatever makes ya feel good. At this point whatever happens to them happens. I'm tired of going out of my way to be nice to 'em.

 

[lookin4better]

What was that? What happened to them?

The best thing GoJets pilots could do is seek unity with the TSA pilots. Either that, or be very happy with a GoJets career knowing your Company would alter ego your alter ego when convenient, knowing SkyWest and Republic are a whole lot better at playing this game than Hulas is.

What " happend " to them?

Hired at DAL, CAL, SWA... etc... many were furloughed AA ( TWA ) ... many of the " A " listers ( initial 2005 hires ) .... are gone... and got hired at the airline of their choice.

The people that hire and are interviewers are " company " pilots.... they dont care about this, and NEVER will

" thanks for coming .... next " Wow those careers were sure damaged uh? ( sarcasm )

 

[~~~^~~~]

They know about this at some airlines and efforts will be made to educate professionals and improve the process.

 

[Dornier 335]

TSA did some flying as American connection when Eagle pilots were furloughed. Enough said.



How many times are you going to ask (stupidly) for my resident planet? Normally I would just ignore such idiotic posts but, in case there's actually a chance that you can be convinced to use your own brain instead mindlessly regurgitating someone else's thoughts; What part of "today's Gojetters" do you not understand? Since you seem to be having trouble understanding, I'll break it down for you. That means pilots that hired on after the initial group that left TSA to jump ahead in seniority. That is indeed shameful. However, there is nothing anymore questionable about those that got hired since that time that isn't as questionable as a pilot flying for any other regional . Now, what's the flavor of the Kool-Aid that you're drinking?

LoL! No way! Read my appropriate answer here.

*gasping for air, LOL LOL *