The glory days are over - What do you think?

[captainv]

it seems like we're all chasing that perfect job. One where we get paid truckloads of money, the job itself is effortless because we love it so, and we have lots of time to enjoy our spoils on our time off. (Then we just need the perfect wife, child, house, car, etc.)

i have an uncle who's a senior ATC controller. Gov't pension and benefits, huge paycheck, a couple years away from age 56 retirement. A lot of us would give our left arm for that, right? maybe not if you talked to him. his schedule's always a mess, his managers are idiots, a lot of FAA vs. union crap going on, old equipment, working too many sectors, rats running around in the facility.... never married, owns enough guns to equip a brigade, lives in AZ but is an expert divemaster. motorcycle nut. deseprate to get married before it's too late.

buddy of mine is a dentist in S. Fla. pretty close to the perfect job. less than 5 years out of school, he bought a practice (the senior dentist sets his own schedule now), the hygenists pretty much do all the messy work, his job is to come poke around for a few minutes and, more improtantly, schmooze with his patients after looking up their personal info on a cheat sheet in the file (so, how's little Bobby like 3rd grade?) huge paycheck, wife and two kids, dog, house w/ dock on intercoastal, goes boating every weekend, ridiculously bored. is this it? he asks when i call him. i can do this in my sleep! thinking about chucking it to focus on oral surgery or maybe teach at a dental school. wife not crazy about that idea.

my brother in law is the CFO for a developer. makes huge $$$, lives in a mansion. late 30s, been giving himself ulcers since high school. stays in a hotel across the street from his office during the week because the kids distract him too much at home. when he's home on weekends, he cleans the entire house. it's how he relaxes. his boss wants him to learn golf so he can help schmooze gov't officials and big clients. this terrifies him and now he can't sleep. his dad (also a workaholic) had a stroke when he was a boy, has been in a home since. his wife wants him to cut back a lot, but he's more stressed when he's not working.

basically every one i know has some variation on this theme. maybe they've got a great job, but there's always a down side. or maybe their work life is perfect, but the home life is a mess. does anyone still want to be a movies star/rock star? or just filthy rich? i've read some interesting stories about lottery winners and how their lives tanked after getting the big check.

i enjoy flying for a living. lots of pros/cons to the job, but that's every job. i could never be a doctor, or an investment banker. i wish i was home more, but the family is pretty solid otherwise. if my airline tanks, i'd probably find something else to do, but i don't spend every day worrying about it. i followed my passion, and it's the passion that helps me get through the rough patches....

 

[Bluestreak]

Barry has it right.We fly more people on more airplanes for less (fares AND wages ) than any other time in history.If nothing else,Capt. Schiff never had to deal with the TSA.

 

[pilotyip]

Nice post Capt5; If you like to fly this a great career, if you don't like to fly, this is probably the worst career you could get into. I will bet anyone, such as myself, who owns an airplane loves this career. If they spend their free time flying old airplanes on the air show circuit, they also probably love this career and still think of themselves being in the glory days. That is my take on your fresh dose of reality. Watch the wave of negative vibes start coming in how you and I have ruined this career.

 

[Rob P.]

Sorry, I just don't buy that. Was there gov't assistance involved?

It's called being the son of an enlisted man in the military . Poor, broke and one half of the homefront is usually living in a tent in a war zone somewhere. And if ANYONE believes that our military is being paid generous wages they need to stop taking whatever halucinogen they're popping. We used to glean the fields afer harvest in order to get enough food to can for the winter. Most enlisted families are on welfare or some such program these days. They get by and raise families on less that what most single people here would sniff at because it's "peanuts".

Wrxpilot, sorry if I misunderstood your post. I just don't understand people these days who can't seem to live on less than a million $/day. Lots of comments about Lawyers and such who everyone seems to believe make the big bucks. Truth is, very few professions pay well and NONE of them pay that well to start. Most lawyers start in the $30k's and work hard to advance from there. Yeah there are a few who make over $100k but that's not the norm. And for those who say "work hard and it'll happen" I have one thing to add to that. Hopefully you'll get lucky and avoid a life disaster. It only takes one little thing and you're financial future is toast. Job injury, divorce, etc and everything you work for is gone and there's little time left to rebuild once you're past 40.

It's the real world and life is not predictable nor easy. You put your head down and make do with what you have and hope for better times.

 

[enigma]

The glory days never existed for anyone but the lucky few. Pre deregulation, working pilots made a lot of cash, but the number of positions was few. Earning the equivilent of a new Caddy every month was great but I'd rather have a job making the equivilent of a new Caddy every four months, than not have a pilot job at all.

It's all a matter of your perspective, and my perspective is this: with my non-mil background and less than perfect eyes, I would have never climbed to my current position back in the "glory days".

When I get disgruntled about not yet having a grasp on the pot of gold, I try to remind myself that I make more than three times the income of the average american family. That ain't chump change friends.

Now, If I could just get over my dislike of stupid governmental security procedures, and crew sceduling, I'd be all right.

 

[pilotyip]

Love the tractor, enigma. You seem to be saying you like your job, that is nice touch on this board. The reality is; this is still a great job without the glory days for those who like to fly airplanes.

 

[Spooky 2]

I think what Schiff was saying or trying so say it that it’s unlikely we will see the glory days of airlines like Pan Am or TWA again in the future. These were airlines where there appeared to be no limit to the future and opportunities for advancement into what most pilots aspired to, big airplanes, big pay checks and pretty awesome working conditions. If you were hired in 1964 at either of these two airlines, you were a made man. Within a year you were flying international at TWA, and of course Pan Am had nothing but international in 1964. The pay was great and there appeared to be little if any ceiling on your rise to the top. Trips were great. Take TWA’s around the world flight in those days. Eleven days westbound and twelve days east bound. If you were flying this trip on an annual basis you only needed to work ten trips a year and you were done for the year.

Numerous opportunities for engaging the ladies that were on trips in those days. They typically were not married, younger than thirty and did no weigh in at 180lbs. A true definition of a target rich environment. Layover in Paris, Tahiti, Sydney made for some great destinations.

So when Schiff says that these days are over, I suspect that he is on target. If there is something out there that looks like this I have not seen it yet. Certainly not flying for Fed Ex or UPS. As good as theses jobs are, I don’t think they can hold a candle to the past experiences.

Would I discourage anyone from becoming an airline pilot today? No, but I sure would not expect anything like in the past.

Being an airline pilot is not just about the paycheck, but the over all journey through ones life. It was a great ride once upon a time but your not likely to see anything resembling this in the near future, if ever again.

 

[captainv]

spooky,

i don't disagree with you. but what job is like it was 40 years ago? for the average worker, gone are the days of a career at one company, a gold watch and a pension for your golden years.

plus, where's the common sense? how long can an airline stay afloat paying six figures for a pilot to work a third of the month? maybe that works when the airlines were regulated, but not now...

 

[flyboyike]

I think what Capt Schiff is trying to do (albeit in a roundabout way) is to discourage what I call glamour pilots from coming into the industry. You know the ones I mean, people who are in it for the uniform and for the leather jacket. And maybe, like someone else pointed out, his article will provide a much needed counterweight to all the super-glossy ads in the same magazine.

 

[tracearabians]

I agree ! Never again !

I think what Schiff was saying or trying so say it that it’s unlikely we will see the glory days of airlines like Pan Am or TWA again in the future. These were airlines where there appeared to be no limit to the future and opportunities for advancement into what most pilots aspired to, big airplanes, big pay checks and pretty awesome working conditions. If you were hired in 1964 at either of these two airlines, you were a made man. Within a year you were flying international at TWA, and of course Pan Am had nothing but international in 1964. The pay was great and there appeared to be little if any ceiling on your rise to the top. Trips were great. Take TWA’s around the world flight in those days. Eleven days westbound and twelve days east bound. If you were flying this trip on an annual basis you only needed to work ten trips a year and you were done for the year.

Numerous opportunities for engaging the ladies that were on trips in those days. They typically were not married, younger than thirty and did no weigh in at 180lbs. A true definition of a target rich environment. Layover in Paris, Tahiti, Sydney made for some great destinations.

So when Schiff says that these days are over, I suspect that he is on target. If there is something out there that looks like this I have not seen it yet. Certainly not flying for Fed Ex or UPS. As good as theses jobs are, I don’t think they can hold a candle to the past experiences.

Would I discourage anyone from becoming an airline pilot today? No, but I sure would not expect anything like in the past.

Being an airline pilot is not just about the paycheck, but the over all journey through ones life. It was a great ride once upon a time but your not likely to see anything resembling this in the near future, if ever again.