The Flight Safety Bridge Program

[Martin747]

I just received information material about the Flight Safety Bridge Program. Flight Safety works with ASA. ASA will interview and if accepted, will grant a conditional offer of employment PRIOR to starting the training with Flight Safety. (What are the conditions I wonder.) The training costs about $30K. Pilots have to have the commercial and multi engine tickets in order to apply.
Has anybody been through the program that could tell me about it? Is it worth the $30k? How is work with ASA? How do you like the CRJ-200? From what I understand Express Jet and American Eagle are also doing it.
Thanks,
Martin

 

[DrewBlows]

I don't know anything about this program, but thought I might be able to give you a little perspective. I paid a little less than $30,000 to go from 0 time to CFI, and got paid for all (most anyway) of my time after that. I went through a part 141 university program, then instructed there. It will definately cost a bit more now. I graduated in 2001, but it still makes me cringe anytime I hear of a private certificate, or a "bridge" program that costs $30,000. There are still resonably priced places to get your aviation education, you just have to look. I know that it's expensive to learn to fly but you don't have to get ripped off.

Good luck.

 

[bender]

A student who was in my CFI program at ATP was in that program, but his class was cancelled. It might have been temporary.

 

[mayday1]

conditional offer of employment PRIOR to starting the training with Flight Safety. (What are the conditions I wonder.) The training costs about $30K.

I think the conditional offer is basically an interview you complete prior to training to ensure you're the "type" of candidate ASA would hire. Then upon successful completion of the program you're off to ASA for their training with a new hire class.

I looked into this program a while back, but was turned off by the price (at the time I inquired, it was $23k). Also, you need to understand, there are no guarantees with this program at all. I think the program has a decent track record, but again, not everyone makes it to ASA. I personally, am not interested in making a $30k+ bet that it will work for me. If it doesn't work, you're out $30k and the training you received in an RJ is basically worthless, since you'll only have about 300hrs and a comm/multi rating.

 

[Medicryan]

I did some research on the program and I came up a little short. The only thing they advertise is an 'Advanced Airline Training Program' which takes you from 0 time to an interview with ASA. They didn't say anything about already having ratings like your comm/ifr and then going to the program.

 

[mayday1]

They didn't say anything about already having ratings like your comm/ifr and then going to the program.

well, you'll need your comm/multi/inst before you can be considered for airline training.

As far as research goes... just call them up, talk to them, and they'll send you a packet of info. That will hopefully give you enough info to make a decision. Bottom line though, it's still $30k or whatever, and you're pinning your hopes on ASA still hiring when you're done with the program.

 

[bobbysamd]

Fsi P-f-t

As much as I endorse FlightSafety Academy as a great primary training provider, I cannot endorse this tie-in. It has all the attributes of P-F-T, i.e., having to pay big money up front, no guarantees of actual hire, conflicts of interest between trainee-customer and trainor-vendor, complete with fraud potential. And, later, explaining to your hardscrabble interview board why you bought a job. Bottom line, P-F-T being an employment issue, only.

Once again, the promise of P-F-T as an end-run around traditional experience and time-building are all illusionary.

 

[Martin747]

Every time I write Flight Safety with specific questions about this program they send me application info which doesn't answer any of my questions. When I am on the phone with them, they are very curt. I also talked to ASA's hiring department and they said they take 2 or 3 low hour candidates from the program. I really need to speak to someone that has done this program because Flight Safety won't give me any names of people to contact who completed it.

 

[mayday1]

I really need to speak to someone that has done this program because Flight Safety won't give me any names of people to contact who completed it.

that alone should be a red flag... when a school will not furnish this information on their FO or direct track programs, it typically means there is something to hide.

 

[Snakum]

Thirty grand for a CPL/ME and an interview? Or is it thirty grand for a CRJ familiarization and an interview? I must be missing something here. Couldn't you get a CL600 type for about half that?

I understand and respect the rules of Capitalism. If a company officer can make a dollar or two for his organization in this crazy industry because a starry-eyed, aspiring professional pilot with good credit or with wealthy parents is willing to sign on the dotted line ... they will do it, and they'll sleep at night. No problem. It's capitalism.

What I cannot respect, though, is the behavior of the starry-eyed aspiring aviator willing to pay these laughably huge prices for a couple hundred hours of right-seat time - often in single-pilot piston twins, 250 hours of twin turbine Part 121 time, or whatever. I don't hate the pilot personally, but I severely dislike his or her behavior, even though I can sort of understand why someone would consider it. Especially in the case of an ex-Army or Navy helo pilot who needs that vital FW time to go with his or her twin turbine RW time just to break into the business. That airlines don't consider the full value of RW turbine flying time is a whole other rant of it's own. The people making those ill-informed decisions should be forced to spend a couple hours in an R22.

For five years now I've been reading how everyone hates PFT and strongly advises against it, yet people keep doing it, and people keep getting hired out of PFT programs to regionals, nationals, and the larger freight outfits. So I have to wonder ... who's interviewing and hiring these guys? Aren't there pilots on essentially every hiring board? When those with input into the hiring process start putting their money where there mouth is this crap will cease, and not until then. I realize in some cases their hands are probably tied ... re. Pinnacle hiring GIA grads until recently, or Commute Air's bridge thingee with ATA (I think it was them?). But when you guys do have input, and when you can make a hiring decision, please do those of us coming up thru the ranks a huge favor, and we promise to retuirn the favor in whatever way we can ...

PFT = No Hire ... period!

We'll definitely owe you one!

Minh

 

[Martin747]

For five years now I've been reading how everyone hates PFT and strongly advises against it, yet people keep doing it, and people keep getting hired out of PFT programs to regionals, nationals, and the larger freight outfits. So I have to wonder ... who's interviewing and hiring these guys? Aren't there pilots on essentially every hiring board? When those with input into the hiring process start putting their money where there mouth is this crap will cease, and not until then. I realize in some cases their hands are probably tied ... re. Pinnacle hiring GIA grads until recently, or Commute Air's bridge thingee with ATA (I think it was them?). But when you guys do have input, and when you can make a hiring decision, please do those of us coming up thru the ranks a huge favor, and we promise to retuirn the favor in whatever way we can ...

PFT = No Hire ... period!

We'll definitely owe you one!

Minh[/QUOTE]



That's what made me wonder too. Why does ASA hire PFT pilots? They told me they do. Just would like to see if there is someone here that has done it and would like to commend on it. Would be interesting to see what he has to say.

 

[bobbysamd]

Impatient, spoiled and no pride

What I cannot respect, though, is the behavior of the starry-eyed aspiring aviator willing to pay these laughably huge prices for a couple hundred hours of right-seat time - often in single-pilot piston twins, 250 hours of twin turbine Part 121 time, or whatever. I don't hate the pilot personally, but I severely dislike his or her behavior, even though I can sort of understand why someone would consider it . . . .

Part of it is generational. Much of it is ethics. A good amount of it is lack of pride. Mix in impatience and being spoiled.

I have a fair idea of your age, Snakum, so you should relate as to why I feel it's generational. I am 54. I was raised not to expect anything to be handed to me, that I must start at the bottom, work my way up, and, if I work hard and follow the rules, I will be rewarded. Accordingly, I learned that it does not pay to end-run the system because it will eventually catch up with me. It's called "work ethic."

Compare "work ethic" with so many (but not all) younger people. Many of their parents came from the hippie generation, where there were no rules or work ethic. These parents indulged their children, so, as a consequence, they do not believe they should have to follow the rules. They have no work ethic. They feel they are owed. Therefore, when they have decided to be pilots, learn of the stringent hiring requirements and learn that they might bypass the system via P-F-T, and not have to earn their goal, they jump at it.

They also lack pride. P-F-T was around fifteen years ago, when I was in the job market. I was not having success in interesting the regionals in my services, but I know that I could have interested the P-F-Ting regionals in my services with a check. I was not about to embarass and humiliate myself by buying a job for which I was qualified. Moreover, bottom line, a pilot position boils down to being only a job. I knew there were plenty of jobs I could do for which I did not have to pay - even if it meant giving up aviation.

So many younger and impatient people have no compunction about buying a job - notwithstanding the message it sends to already-tyrannical employers. In other words, by P-F-Ting, i.e., buying your job, one sends a message to employers that one is already willing to tolerate unfair treatment, just to be a pilot.

Just watch. These same P-F-Ters will, one day, come back here and whine about poor pay and unfair treatment. They set the tone with their employers by P-F-Ting; therefore, they will have no standing to complain. Faustian debts do not go unpaid.

 

[Kawasumi_Kichou]

When I was in the canyon '80 to '82 I used to get guys offering me money to let them ride right seat in a C-207 no less. I used to run 'em off yelling, "It's guys like you that make it impossible for guys like me to demand a decent wage!" Used to get quizzical looks from them. They didn't get it then and it sounds like they still don't.

When I later flew at Scenic we had some captains that would not allow any FO that PFT'd in the past to get any stick time. Those FOs would log nothing but SIC PNF.

 

[Tater Salad]

Heheheh. I think you all just answered my questions from the other day to a level of deciding against these type of programs.

I know there are many programs out there that look good on paper (and in this case, also a DVD from FSI that I got), but I have always put BIG question marks up in front of these types of programs. Of course I personally always ask myself, "what if this is for real?" I think in this case I just figured it out based on what you all have to say.

 

[DrewBlows]

bobby,
With all respect, you sound like my crazy grampa with your "when I was your age" story. Blaming it on the hippies is a little far fetched.

That said here's my far fetched idea (I am the generation of no "work ethic"). Everybody wants to get their first airline job as soon as possible. The cost of flight training (and pretty much anything that has to do with aviation) has gone up and up and up to a point were 30k for a few hundred hours in a beech 1900 looks like a pretty good deal. Think about it, if you just paid 75k for your certificates, ratings, and 250 hours (give or take), 30K more (while still a lot of money) is just a contiuance of your education.

Let's delve a little deeper into this. First, why would you go to an acadamy that costs 75k, when you could go to your local FBO or even a lot of part 141 schools and pay half that? Igonorance, in my opinion. These people see an ad in Flying magazine, figuring this is the price to be paid and pony up the cash. Then after they get their certificates, they are looking for ways to get that all important multi-engine time, and they see another ad in Flying magazine that promises to put them in the right seat of a huge Beech 1900, and eventually into the right seat of a CRJ for 30k. Why do they do this? Again, in my humble opinion they are ignorant. They just don't know any better. It's not until they start flying the line that they hear their captains talking about the ills of PFT that they can even conceive that not everybody agrees with it. Even then they may not see the whole picture, and tell their friends and family what a great deal it was.

NOTE: I have never engaged in PFT and strongly oppose it, I just don't think that my generation is lazy.

 

[bobbysamd]

Generation gap, ignorance and impatience

With all respect, you sound like my crazy grampa with your "when I was your age" story.

Your grandfather was not that crazy. He probably came from the Great Depression era, where people were lucky to have any job and were just happy to work. My parents came from that generation. They did not like it when I proclaimed that I will do work I like because, in so doing, I will be happy, which they took to mean have fun. Years later, after being in and out of work and having little stability, I realized that my parents were right. Work is not supposed to be fun; that's why it's called "work."

n my humble opinion they are ignorant. They just don't know any better. It's not until they start flying the line that they hear their captains talking about the ills of PFT that they can even conceive that not everybody agrees with it.

I would count a great many (but, again, not all) career changers among the ignorant and impatient. I read it here on the boards. These people see P-F-T as a way of shortcutting the process, but cannot conceive of the evils of doing so, and do not want to hear otherwise. They apparently believe that because they are older that starting at the bottom is unnecessary or inapplicable to them. These individuals do not understand that aviation is no different than any other vocation; no matter who you are or how old you are, you still have to start at the bottom and earn your way up.

In all of my careers, I was happy just to get my foot in the door and to get a chance - and I got those chances through my own doing. I would have never embarrassed and humiliated myself by bribing an employer via P-F-T or otherwise into hiring me. Once more, it is still only a job.

I have never engaged in PFT and strongly oppose it, I just don't think that my generation is lazy.

Not all younger people are lazy. But, for the reasons I set forth in my last post above and which I stand by, so many of them (again, not all) are spoiled and indulged, undisciplined, and impatient. They never had to work for anything in their lives and see no reason to start now.

 

[DrewBlows]

Bobby,

I'm sure there are many reasons why people do PFT, including the reasons we have discussed. In my original post I didn't even ponder career changers. So it goes to show, there are a lot of people out there with a lot of different motivations. I think we can agree that any motivation that leads to PFT is flat out wrong, for what it does to the industry as a whole.

Now if we could just get currently employed pilots to stick together, we may just get somewhere.

 

[bobbysamd]

Anti-P-F-T solidarity

In my original post I didn't even ponder career changers. So it goes to show, there are a lot of people out there with a lot of different motivations.

Career changers might be one of P-F-T's major audiences, along with impatient young people. Because of their age, they are in a hurry and are looking for shortcuts, despite educational efforts that shortcuts could set them back further.

Now if we could just get currently employed pilots to stick together, we may just get somewhere.

I would submit that most pilots loathe P-F-T and will blackball P-F-Ters if given the chance. They just need the chance.

 

[DAS at 10/250]

Why does ASA hire PFT pilots?

Because ASA used to be a PFT airline.

 

[DrewBlows]

I would submit that most pilots loathe P-F-T and will blackball P-F-Ters if given the chance. They just need the chance.

I agree. My original statement was directed at the currently employed pilot group in terms of general issues (pay, work rules, ect.). I think that really the only pilots that can do anything directly about PFT are those on hiring boards. We can all do our part by educating young pilots about the broad effects of PFT.